episode 16 – building the world’s first AI creative director | Shun Matsuzaka

Resources and links

Artworks and other topics mentioned during the podcast can be seen in the following links:

• Shun Matsuzaka Linkedin
• Toy8 – Matsuzaka new startup
• Genome House
• McCann Millennials 
• AI-CD β TVC – Business Insider – AI vs Human
• Clorets AI Commercial

Transcripts

*the transcript was produced with the help of AI, mistakes might appear.

[00:00:00] hey, I want to tell you about today’s speaker. He’s a creative director. He wanted to know if robots and technology can do creative work because he was concerned about the future of his job occupation. So, what did he do? He built the first AI creative director and launched, a competition in Japan, between robot and human creative director.

[00:00:21] Want to know what were the results? Well, you will need to stay for this episode. I spoke with Shun Maztusaka about robots, about creativity, about our education and how art actually take place in such a technological world. So stay tuned. 

[00:00:40]

[00:00:40]Hey podcast listeners. Thanks again for coming back. Today’s episode was recorded in Tokyo, Japan in the offices of McCann, the advertising agency. I spoke with Shun Matzusaka he’s the founder and leader of the open innovation unit at McCann – McCann millennials. He’s the digital creative director at McCann Malaysia. He’s a speaker in conferences and now working on his new venture. You might wonder how a Japanese that live in Kuala Lumpur meets an Israeli that lives in Madrid, Spain to a code podcast in Tokyo, Japan, right?

[00:01:16]I got to know Sean’s work. While I was researching for my book that was published in Japan in 2018. I was looking to learn about the influence of robots, AI creativity, and creative technologies on the field of greedy works. Shoon was the perfect person. Why.

[00:01:32] You will hear in a second.

[00:01:34]Before we start. A disclaimer. It was one of the first podcast I ever got it. And I was new to the whole podcasting world. So I’m already saying thank you for your patience. We took the time to edit the episode. And I changed the questions and change the flow. So you will see how valuable the information shown shared with us.

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[00:01:56]Shun Matsuzaka.  Welcome to the artian podcast. 

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[00:02:03] Shun: [00:02:03] Hello? Hi. 

[00:02:04] Nir Hindi: [00:02:04] Konichua

[00:02:05]in 2013, the research automation in the future of work was published. Two professors from Oxford, Michael Osborne and Carl benedikt Frey showed in research that almost 50% of the jobs in the US we’ll be eliminated by robots.

[00:02:22]Just like many Shun got exposed to this research and he wanted to understand how technology is going to influence his own field of work. The creative work. So he started a project. 

[00:02:37]Shun: [00:02:37] I started this project called AI CD beta, which is the world first robot that can direct TV commercials. at the time it was. 2015  and people were shocked by this research from Oxford university.  And  I was very interested in AI and robots. So I researched in our area, which is the advertising industry, and then there’s no one who is exploring it.

[00:03:09] So I decided to make, uh, one prototype robot AI that can direct TV commercials. We have collected awarded winning TV commercials in Japan and then made our database.

[00:03:24]Nir Hindi: [00:03:24] You probably see a lot of commercials every day. But do you know what it involves? How many people actually need to take part in one commercial?

[00:03:36] So in order for us to understand, I asked Shun to explain – to produce one commercial, what we need to do. I wanted to understand also why he chose the creative role.

[00:03:50] Shun: [00:03:50] Sure. Okay. So usually in the creative process, we have creative director who is, uh, responsible for the entire creative team of the production.

[00:04:02]what we usually do is that we receive the creative brief from the client, which tells us who is the target. what season we want to launch the commercial , who wants to. what kind of message you want to convey to the target, et cetera. And then based on that the creative director will kind of give the team a big direction of what sort of commercial we should make.

[00:04:27] And then based on that team will make their the creative ideas. And then after we’ll have the storyboards and then shooting, editing, and then done. So we’ll have like usually 20-100 people sometimes to produce. And the creative director is the one who lead that, team.

[00:04:49] Nir Hindi: [00:04:49] So that’s interesting.

[00:04:50] You say 20-100 and in a second, you’re going to explain about your way a robot. So I’m interesting how many jobs you are going to eliminate with your robot anywhere between 20 to 100. So be careful of what you’re asking for. So you had this idea to kind of try and replace maybe the creative process of coming up with idea to a commercial.

[00:05:14] How did you go about it?

[00:05:16] Shun: [00:05:16] Basically, I think it’s better. I make it clear that I didn’t make this robot to replace any of human work. basically what that robot can do is giving the team a big direction. What we should do what we should not do based on the database. So the human will kind of work based on that big direction.

[00:05:41] It’s similar to what Netflix does, um, to create their original drama series. They have a lot of database from their service, and then they know what audience wants to watch. So based on that they will kind of give their production team, what should do and what should not do. And then their famous actors and directors will make the actual drama series.

[00:06:07] So it is a co-creation process and there, of course their machine has got their good side, which is they never forget the things. They can work 24/7, and they don’t have our good days, bad days. So they’re quite reliable in that way.

[00:06:22]Nir Hindi: [00:06:22] let’s go back for a, for the project. If I remember the last time we talked, you told me you took materials for few years. I don’t know, maybe five, six, seven, eight years of kind of creative or creative direction brief. Yeah. And you started to break it into.

[00:06:38] Shun: [00:06:38] Into the database. So we watched about thousand plus TV commercials, and then we guessed what’s the creative brief for the client from watching the TV commercials, as well as breaking down what makes the good commercials. So for example, this commercial use the music.

[00:06:57] So what kind of music using celebrities or what, what’s the key key message for that? Commercials, et cetera. We have our things to fill up for each commercials and then made a database and it becomes the core data for that AI. And then when you have your creative brief for your own product, you just type in and then press the button.

[00:07:22] And then after the creative director will write down Japanese choregraphy, which is a creative direction.

[00:07:29]Think about what you just described to us. He took thousands of commercials, analyze them. And then instead of human thinking about the creative aspect of a commercial, you just press one click and get from a database of thousands of commercials. What you might need to do. How simple how easy how scary

[00:07:51] Nir Hindi: [00:07:51] Okay. So now after you mapped kind of what makes a good commercial, a good commercial and you  started to feed it into the AI and AI. You start to process it. The next phase was actually to test it and you chose If I remember chewing gum or a, yeah.

[00:08:09] Shun: [00:08:09] Okay. So, Oh, there mint tablet, sorry.

[00:08:12] Nir Hindi: [00:08:12] Yes, I remember it. It’s green or something like this. Yes. so tell us about, about this. I mean, how did it work? What did you decide to do in order to test your AI now actually in a process.

[00:08:25] Shun: [00:08:25] So I wanted to kind of try and use it, but I made hit to hit creative battle human against AI.

[00:08:34] So rather than just making one commercial with the AI creative director, we gave the same budget to the human and AI creative director, and then giving the same timeline, same creative team, but that our creative director is different. And then asking viewer to watch two commercials. And then vote, which one is conveying the message better.

[00:08:58] Nir Hindi: [00:08:58] Wait before you discovered the results. Wait, I have a question. So you chose this director that probably you’re familiar with, or an agency or worked with before and now you have a battle between human and machine and you edit the commercial. Where?

[00:09:16]Shun: [00:09:16] It was on YouTube, so yeah, it was, uh, on the website two commercials and then asking your to watch too, and then vote.

[00:09:26] Nir Hindi: [00:09:26] Okay, great. So now we have two commercials in the YouTube and now people start to vote. Yeah. And what were the results?

[00:09:35] Shun: [00:09:35] so human one, but it was only 54% of the public vote went to the human.

[00:09:45] So, um, AI was very, very close even though it was a first time for it to make a commercial.

[00:09:53]Wait. I want to take the time in, repeat the numbers. Humans 54%. Machine 46%. On the first attempt. 

[00:10:08] Nir Hindi: [00:10:08] So it’s very interesting because you know, when we had this discussion and your robots was managed to get to 46% of the voters to vote for their commercial on the first attempt that actually you, you did and the human only got 54%.

[00:10:27] And that kind of leads me to the question. What would be the future of commercials if robots, in the first attempt, actually were able to engage 46% of the audience, where do you see it actually happening or going?

[00:10:44] Shun: [00:10:44] So I think it can be a great partner for human production team. I think we have our answer from the Netflix, how they’re successful using the data based on the audience behavior, but no robot camera man or no robot editor is working on their Netflix team.

[00:11:05] So it’s just the data giving you the right big direction and then human team build on that data and then they work on it.

[00:11:17] Nir Hindi: [00:11:17] So basically co-creation or built upon some of the things that were analyzed by the whole board. So cameraman’s and recorders an editors be relaxed, at least for the next few years.

[00:11:29] We don’t know what will happen in the, in the future. No one knows. but if someone, if a robot one day will take your job, so I will give you Shun’s email so you can complain It’s it’s kind of a strike me because it’s, and that’s the kind of conversation or a question that I would like to ask you because we hear this trend around AI and obviously some of the work will be replaced by AI, especially the routine jobs.

[00:11:56] But I always claimed that the only thing that kind of separate us from machine in a way is our ability to think in an original way, in a creative way. and that’s a question that I also kind of want to hear your opinion because you are dealing with AI and robots.

[00:12:14] What is the difference between creativity in humans, creativity in machine. And why do you think, or not that human still are better when it comes to understanding a human and creativity than, than machine?

[00:12:29] Shun: [00:12:29] Again, I don’t know about the future in 10 years, but as far as I can imagine, we are still in the human world.

[00:12:38] So a lot of things that we do is to. Make human happy or to make our world a better place. So if we have start to create the concept of, to make machine happy then maybe the machine would be the better, but as long as we are still communicating with human in a human society, I think human will be the better.

[00:13:04] And then we use machines, AI and robots to support or co-create or co work together.

[00:13:12] Nir Hindi: [00:13:12] And do you think your robot will become more popular among other creative agencies as kind of a helper in the design of new or the conceptualization of new commercial?

[00:13:24] Shun: [00:13:24] For sure. Yes, but I think it’s more to do with our generation.

[00:13:28] We are that generation who is kind of naturally accept the technology, but the younger ones who is learning at the school at the moment, they are learning with AI and technology today. So I think that they later on, for sure, but I don’t know, like in three years, because the ones who are doing work in the industry.

[00:13:53] They said that the tech is very important and we all need to understand it, but they don’t really use it for the everyday work. So it really depends on how much we believe on it and how much we try and do I use it.

[00:14:11]Nir Hindi: [00:14:11] I want to believe that humans are. In a way more humans than machine and able to keep at least, at least for now the, the creative spirit for ourselves

[00:14:23]as you know, I’m dealing a lot with the role of art in business, and obviously often I have been asked if machine can create art and can it be creative?. And I wonder, what do you think? I mean, can machine create art? And if it’s creating art, which type of art.

[00:14:42] Shun: [00:14:42] I think again, it’s art who see the art is human so if there’s an art for machines, then machine, maybe it will be the better artists. But I think if you are communicating with  humans, then creativity wise, there’s always human input into the machines so I don’t think the machine becomes naturally artist without humans.

[00:15:14] So

[00:15:14] Nir Hindi: [00:15:14] I always say that machine can analyze cubism and probably create a beautiful a cubism painting, but I’m not sure machine can invent cubism. Yeah it’s kind of lead me also to another project that you are working on or a created.  It’s kind of a helmet mixed or connected to a robot to enhance human creativity.

[00:15:37] And that’s a project that you did with Fuji Xerox, um, here in Japan. And first of all, I have two questions. How did you get to the idea? Why do you think we need to enhance creativity and why actually robot can do it?

[00:15:56]Shun: [00:15:56] When I did this AI creative director project, um, many people ask me how the human creativity remains in the 21 century, I kept asking myself and then my. I’m sorry, was that, I don’t know the exact answer, but I want to use their robot and eyes to enhance human creativity, not to replace it and then it comes back to my everyday work, which I need to be creative. So what do I want to be supported by robot or AI?

[00:16:34] Is that it’s my everyday work, which I need to be creative. So what if the robot can draw out my creativity? Just like an athlete before the football or goes to the pitch they need to draw their 120% of their ability to win the game. So just like that, I want every day I want to be creative, like 120% and there, it was mindfulness meditation.  I have a friend who is a teacher of mindfulness, and then he told me that you can be a creative doing the meditation. So we combined together the technology of the brainwave trucker using brainwave trucker to understand your situation, whether you’re nervus or stressed or relaxed.

[00:17:25] The robot will understand, your emotions and situation. And then based on that it will give you the right methodology of there, mindfulness meditation. So for example, your nervus and then there’s our right way to reduce your nervousness. So it can be your best creative partner. So yeah. So that’s their second robot I sort of explore and then I started to do the meditation and I feel like, at least I’m more like, I’m not creative. I’m not sure, but I can be relaxed and then I can focus more on what I need to

[00:18:08] Nir Hindi: [00:18:08] do.

[00:18:09] Yeah. I think, I think it’s at the end point that we’ll borrow these because I need to see if I can meditate myself because the more for me, the moment I close my eyes and try to breathe and meditate, my brain just work even faster.

[00:18:22] And then when I knew, okay, what should I do?

[00:18:24]As you can see. Sean is involved in many things. One of the things that is touted is a startup. In this startup deals with creativity, talent, and kits. And I asked him why he started because it’s all related to his own personal story. As a kid back in Japan. 

[00:18:45] Shun: [00:18:45] Okay. So we have started this startup venture company two years ago in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

[00:18:55] This is the project to kind of find out kids uniqueness and then develop it. So how we are developing, it’s not open yet, but we are preparing, it’s like a playground in the shopping mall and we have different types of toys. Some of them are very kinetic, like you need to physically move. And some of them are musical type of toys.

[00:19:21] Some of them are like Lego blocks to kind of build up construct stuff. So those toys are based on the concept theory called Multiple Intelligences. So this professor from Harvard university developed this. concept it’s kind of counter for the IQ and their education system today because it, the measurement system today to measure the kids is very, very narrow.

[00:19:51] Only limited people can fit into it. And then most of them are not measured right way. And I was passing very suffered in the school to sit down for like 15 minutes. And then every few months we have our exam.  I couldn’t score very well, but I really liked to learn stuff, but I just didn’t like the system.

[00:20:15] So what we are trying to do is in that space, we will install cameras and sensors and then kids can just play in the area one hour or two and then we can A sensor, how the kids play. And then, um, we can find out the uniqueness and the talent, and we believe all the kids has got talent. So they are all gifted and we will find their kind of tendency.

[00:20:42] And after we can give a lot of tips, How he, or she can grow based on that database. And then we’ll provide like annual workshop to develop their creativity as well as their scores based on their their talent and uniqueness.

[00:20:58]Nir Hindi: [00:20:58] I think that when we talked last time is that you mentioned that it was your father that encouraged you to pursue your way of thinking and as a kid, and I think it’s when I, when I do a research around entrepreneurs that always have these connections to the arts, it’s always come back to what they saw at their home. And often you see that their mother was another teacher and maybe their father was an engineer, or maybe the father was a painter and their mother was a biologist.

[00:21:28] But for them disciplines don’t exist. It’s just everything mixed around the table when they have dinner.   I feel that we are lacking today with, with kids. We are still trying to channel them to choose either painting, either mathematics, either music or either physics, et cetera.

[00:21:49] And it’s kind of disturbing me to think that we still trying to, to channel kids and to tell them, okay, when they are eight or nine, normally our parents tell us, stop doing creative thing and focus on what’s important. So we learned that creativity is not important anymore.

[00:22:11] Shun: [00:22:11] That’s true. I it just reminded me of my childhood.

[00:22:15]I have one sister seven years older. When she was born, my parent was so aggressive for her education. at the time she was studying in a primary school to high school, my parents were very, very strict. So she went to like private school and, after school class in Japan, in Tokyo and, um, At the end, like when she graduate high school, she hates studying.

[00:22:44] She hates like everything happening in their school. So after my parents learned and also when I was born, they’re kind of older. So they’re kind of more easy, laid back, give you more freedom, more freedom. I mean all free. Like they didn’t push me to learn. And then one time I got a very bad score in the mathematic in a primary school. they said, don’t worry, don’t worry. they’re mathematicians are all bad at math actually. They’re like very creative. One idea becomes you very famous. So don’t worry. They just kept saying anything happened in their score. they just said, don’t worry. Don’t worry.

[00:23:27] You’re good. You’re good. Kept seeing me so I felt like, Oh, I’m good. So school is school. And now I study about the education. It was very, very right thing to do. It’s the school is only one way to measure the kids. So it’s very important that parents encourage you and then believe in. The kids.

[00:23:48]Nir Hindi: [00:23:48] Yeah. I think Finland, Finland understood this because in the education system, in Finland, they canceled, I think a homework and exams, et cetera. And actually it’s one of the most, I think, achievable education system. Very interesting. Yeah. I mean, I’m also kind of exploring how we can influence and rediscover, creativity in humans, because one of the things, that’s why I find the, your, even your robot interesting. And. Is it often when I speak to the business community, the first thing that we say, when they say the word creativity, they say, I’m not creative. It’s not for me. And I believe that creativity is something very natural for humans. It’s something that we do. It’s just that we kind of killed it when we were at the primary school.

[00:24:33] So it’s  lead me to the next question because you started the McCann millennials and.

[00:24:41] We often hear in the job market around millennials. And now we have the gen Z started to enter to the job market. And I believe, and that’s maybe my perception is that the young generation understand the role of art and creativity. More it maybe it’s come to them more naturally. In the job environment.

[00:25:02] And often when I give talks, the questions that I get from young generation and from the old generation are very different. And that’s the gap generation. And what is this McCann millennial? And why did you even started at?

[00:25:17] Shun: [00:25:17] So when I started McKamey millennials, I wanted to, to something beyond the advertisement I liked.

[00:25:27] Advertising. But I, if I look outside the industry, the same generation, the people from the same generation, they make stuff. And then I felt like I can do it too. And then they are like superstars. And then there are the ones who. What’s seen as a creative, like more creative than there are people in our industry.

[00:25:49] So why don’t we try it at least? So that was the concept. We have the people who has got ideas. So what, we can just start it.  but we couldn’t do it like their entire company project. So I started small in their same generation who had got same kind of concept millennials. Yeah. And then after we’ve done few robots projects and other kind of new business projects, it just continues.

[00:26:23] I think people has got idea that we can actually do beyond advertising.

[00:26:30] Nir Hindi: [00:26:30] So it’s kind of a given the space or the time or the resources for your generation, the millennial generation to actually experiment with their ideas and those ideas not necessarily relate to the core business of McCann.  can you, we have, as an example for one or two projects that you like personally?

[00:26:48]  Shun: [00:26:48] Okay.

[00:26:49]other than the robots project, we’ve done one project with Panasonic. We made a house based on your genetic data. So basically the, it will be big paradigm sift will come. when people start to have DNA data, it’s the  database. So it will. I think be as big as what Google have today. So what we imagine in the near future is that we will design a house based on like your genetic data and then like the table, what maybe this table is maybe very bad for you. So let’s change it to this type wood.

[00:27:42] Nir Hindi: [00:27:42] Materials, materials to match kind of the material in the house too. So I DNA.

[00:27:48] Shun: [00:27:48] Okay. We up one lady who is the genetic company CEO, and then we made a bedroom just for her. Most

[00:27:55] Nir Hindi: [00:27:55] of the physical events,

[00:27:56] Shun: [00:27:56] physical bedroom in there, shopping mall is our kind of a showroom.

[00:28:02] And then we made this bet. we found out she is more likely to lose her moisture at night. And then also Haskin is very good much with the Shea butter. So we made the special linen just for her weaving cotton into their their Shea butter into the cotton. And then it’s just hard linen.

[00:28:27] So it just made for her. And

[00:28:31] Nir Hindi: [00:28:31] did you move to live in there?

[00:28:34] Shun: [00:28:34] No, it’s just the showroom. Um, sadly, yeah, we asked her to, is it the actual renovate her room, but she said it’s her private area.

[00:28:47] Like the wallpaper and all that is based on her genetic data. Right.

[00:28:54] Nir Hindi: [00:28:54] And how many people are members in the, this group

[00:28:58] Shun: [00:28:58] now in Tokyo about 90 people.

[00:29:02] Nir Hindi: [00:29:02] 90. Yeah. And it’s good. It’s only in the mechanic Tokyo, or you took it to other places?

[00:29:07] Shun: [00:29:07] Yeah. Yes. We have members in 10 countries in Asia Pacific area, but some of the country are very active.

[00:29:16] Some of our them are not active, so is there a difference, but yeah, we have a leaders and then we have program that we can meet up. sometimes in a year, so we can exchange the idea and work together

[00:29:31] Nir Hindi: [00:29:31] the one time you will do an exhibition about your ideas of the millennial.

[00:29:35] Shun: [00:29:35] Oh yeah.

[00:29:36] That would be great. Yeah.

[00:29:37]Nir Hindi: [00:29:37] you study actually, illustration in an art school, right? where did you, do you study.

[00:29:43] Shun: [00:29:43] Um, studied in UK. It’s not in London. It’s our area called Cornwall. It’s about seven hours away from London. So I needed to face there pen on paper every day. I was like drawing, designing stuff every day in there yeah, close side.

[00:30:05]Nir Hindi: [00:30:05] And you know, the reason that I ask, because we talked about the creativity and I kind of see creativity as an osmosis  process that if you’re around creative people you do creative things.  and obviously in an advertising agency, you have also the traditional business functions. How do you see maybe the creativity of the advertising teams actually goes into other departments in the business? if at all.

[00:30:33] Shun: [00:30:33] M y  career is not consistent. I’ve done so many things. I never thought when I was studying illustration, I never thought I would make a house based on genetic data or making a robot. But one thing that’s in common is that I have passion that I want to express something. So whether it’s or client out of dicing a client work or they’re works that I want to make like robots.

[00:31:03]it’s always the same passion and illustration as well. And then in out of deicing industry, I think there are two types who is very, very focused on the advertising, but the other one is more, more like me that they have some passion to express something. So sometimes it’s not advertising. So they can kind of go beyond.

[00:31:30] Nir Hindi: [00:31:30] I always say that for creative people disciplines don’t exist. No  my question will revolve around, you know, you mentioned some of the people that do the business development, et cetera, and you actually mentioned the creative aspect of their work, and that’s kind of the influence that I’m, I’m looking to see if maybe someone that work in business development, but in a creative environment actually go beyond the traditional of their business and becoming more creative in their role.

[00:32:04]Shun: [00:32:04] So when I joined McCann, I was in Media department, which is, not much to do with the creative. So first department I was in was a media buyer.

[00:32:17] So it’s more relation development with our media partners. My first boss was super, super creative because he created many many new deals that people never ever thought. So I thought why this guy is so successful is that he is just creative. He’s got so much passion to break the existing rule and then making the new deals with their media partners.

[00:32:49] So even their division, like the media buying division, I think that guy was super creative. So I think that kind of things, again, there’s no disciplines. The creative people exist in the different department. So I still respect him the way he think is very cool.

[00:33:13] Nir Hindi: [00:33:13] And how do you think we can encourage it in more traditional companies?

[00:33:17] How we can encourage actually people to explore to explore creativity, to explore a design, to look for other inspiration rather the Excel sheet.

[00:33:27] Shun: [00:33:27] I don’t have an answer. I think again, he needs to go back to the early education and then what happened last week? I’m starting to worry is that my daughter start to ask  whatever the things she does “is it corrected or is it wrong?” It’s the bad sign. she starts to lose her expression like her

[00:33:53] Nir Hindi: [00:33:53] freedom.

[00:33:53] Shun: [00:33:53] Yeah. Personal freedom. Yeah. So I think the small things like that when you grow up, it becomes the person who kind of follows the right answer. So it’s this just the opposite direction.

[00:34:08] And from there creativity.

[00:34:11] Nir Hindi: [00:34:11] So what inspires

[00:34:12] Shun: [00:34:12] you? I just trying to learn from my parents gave me a freedom to do whatever the things I do.  also my ex boss and also their boss today who gave me still giving me a freedom to express. So yeah,

[00:34:34] Nir Hindi: [00:34:34] that’s something very interesting, you know, because often people ask me about creative talent.

[00:34:39] But I always tell managers, even if you bring creative talent, do you know how to manage them? And one of the things that I’ve noticed is that actually creative people need the freedom to experiment  with ideas that they have not only channeled them to do the same thing.

[00:34:56] Shun: [00:34:56] but the difficult thing in the corporation is that you need to make money to be sustainable. You’re not like Patron for artists. So I had my 10 years spent in my can not doing millennials. Which I try to make money and working only for the advertising.

[00:35:22] And after I thought of thought that I can do my thing, but still making money. So that’s the difficult things, but I needed to learn like 10 years maybe. Yeah. gen Z can do it in three years or even,

[00:35:39] Nir Hindi: [00:35:39] yeah, it’s fun. You know, every time I speak with business, eh, people and immediately when I meet talk about art, they think that it’s focusing only on the imagination. And when you look at very successful companies, it’s always the two, it’s always the two, its the imagination and the execution and that’s something that I feel that many countries is, are lacking that so focused on execution and efficiency that actually forgetting that we need the imagination in order to go.

[00:36:07] And to the future. Yeah.

[00:36:09] Great. I enjoyed this conversation. I don’t know if you have like, kind of a final thoughts and maybe to give tips for the people that doesn’t have your, a helmet yet, how it, they can develop their creativity.

[00:36:24] Shun: [00:36:24] Uh, send email to Fuji Xerox to make that product availalbe in the store, they’re still under development, but,  no, I,

[00:36:34] Nir Hindi: [00:36:34] imagination and execution.

[00:36:35] Shun: [00:36:35] Yeah. I don’t know. I think today we can, as long as you can have our spare time, you can start small prototyping. And then with that, you can have. Team members around and then you can develop it. So I just did the same things with McCann millennials. no one  believed me at the time I started their AI CD project, but three people who thought, Oh, that’s cool concept.

[00:37:06] Let’s do it. made actual robot and made it happen. So I think just start making it is there, first step and then the most creative step.

[00:37:19] Nir Hindi: [00:37:19] Yeah, just do it. Just to divest the slogan probably. Yeah. Great. First of all,  shouldn’t thank you very much. 

[00:37:27] Shun: [00:37:27] thanks

[00:37:27] thanks, Sean. Thank you.

[00:37:30]

[00:37:30] Hope you enjoy this episode. I want to say arigato gozaimasu and big, thanks to the McCann team in Tokyo that hosted us in the office has to call this episode. Big, thanks to Sean who took his time to show all these beautiful project is doing. And what he thinks about creativity and artificial intelligence.

[00:37:49] If you want to learn more about the work shown is doing, if you want to see the commercials he mentioned, and if you want to see the different projects he created, go to our website and everything will be available on the episode. Show notes. Videos articles links until next time stay safe  have a great day.