episode 20 – creative entrepreneurship | Sam Hunter Magee

In this episode, we speak to Sam Hunter Magee. Magee shares why Harvard University, just like MIT, has a platform to allow students to mix art, creativity with business? How these programs help in building creative entrepreneurs? What are the benefits for engineering and business professionals when they work with the creative/artsy group? 

Sam Hunter Magee is the Associate Director on Creativity and Entrepreneurship at the Bok Center for Teaching and Learning, Sam works to connect education-innovation and creative-entrepreneurship communities. Previously, he was the Entrepreneur in Residence at Harvard University for HILT’s Operation Impact, an arts administrator at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, a Creative Entrepreneurship lecturer at Boston University, and a school teacher and arts department chair.


Sam Hunter Magee

Resources and links

Artworks and other topics mentioned during the podcast can be seen in the following links:



The transcript was produced by an AI, mistakes might appear. 


Nir Hindi: [00:00:00] Today’s episode will shed light on the work. Leading institutions like MIT and Harvard are doing to promote creative entrepreneurship. Why is it important? This year showed us that a new mindset is required when it comes to significant issues. And just last October, the world economic forum published the future of jobs, 2025 report.

[00:00:19] And in it? The skills we will need in the job market. Among them creativity, originality, resilience, flexibility, and social leadership, all of these skills and others are being addressed in the program. Sam has been running for years and which I’m fortunate to take part in. Thanks to Sam, Sam. Welcome to the Artian podcast.

[00:00:41] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:00:41] Good morning. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:45] Nir Hindi: [00:00:45] Sam can you take a moment to introduce yourself?

[00:00:48] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:00:48] Absolutely. My name is Sam Magee. I am currently the associate director on Creativity and Entrepreneurship at the Bok center for learning and teaching at Harvard university. Uh, before that I was the student program manager at the Massachusetts Institute of technology.

[00:01:04] And before that a school teacher and art teacher for many years, I’ve been living in Massachusetts and on the East coast, my whole life. I have a 19 year old son. I live here with my wife and a little dog, actually two dogs now, two dogs now.

[00:01:19] Nir Hindi: [00:01:19] Before we dive deep into what you’re doing there today, You and me actually got to know each other through the work you’re doing in MIT, you were kind enough generous enough to invite me to be mentor in this beautiful competition, MIT creative arts competition.

[00:01:36] Can you tell us about this competition? What does it mean? Creative arts competition in such a technological oriented institution.

[00:01:45] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:01:45] So when I started at MIT, I realized a few things pretty quickly. The biggest one was that the desire for the arts and the practice of the arts was prevalent throughout the entire student body.

[00:02:02] Practically, there may be an assumption that at a science and tech school creativity and the arts don’t exist, but the opposite is true. And in fact, they exist in, in a really healthy state. And so I was very, very excited to see that. And I saw an opportunity there. Um, I started mentoring and advising startups.

[00:02:25] As this startup culture took effect at MIT. Uh, one of the things that your students say is, you know, I want to have two failed startups before I graduate. And so there’s a lot of it going on there and I was watching these. 60 pitches and 60 minute festivals where you would just see idea after idea after idea.

[00:02:47] And I realized after doing this for awhile, where are the artists? There are plenty of MBAs are plenty of coders, plenty of entrepreneurs, the arts are involved, but where is the true representation? So I had this idea of creating a competition specifically for students who are creating ventures that focus on creativity and the creative arts.

[00:03:10] Nir Hindi: [00:03:10] Now you’re actually continuing and developing your work and you do similar work in Harvard University. before we dive deep into the program at Harvard, I want to ask you, why do you think it’s important to give the space for the creative entrepreneurship, why we see more of those competitions programs around the globe?

[00:03:36] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:03:36] My first reaction to that would be the power, the momentum, the growth, the interest is starting with the students. This the students are, are entering the Academy with this desire to solve for big global issues. I see this both MIT and Harvard, they’re interested in really making a positive impact. So the idea of the traditional business is definitely mutating is changing.

[00:04:06] It’s evolving into this new space where students are less interested in the bottom line in terms of finances in terms of the dollar and they’re more interested in having a positive impact and that may sound on its face. Okay, great. You have a nonprofit that does something nice. It’s not that simple.

[00:04:27] It’s a lot more complicated than that. And in order to live in this space, one needs to start thinking creatively and so the value of creativity. It’s definitely on the rise and it’s directly related, I think to this exploration of this new space,

[00:04:41] Nir Hindi: [00:04:41] but the MIT still continue running this program and I’m interested to understand why institutions like MIT and Harvard that are very recognized and very well known.

[00:04:52] Actually take the time to develop these programs. What is the value? Of having the space to these artists to actually do it?

[00:05:02] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:05:02] That’s a terrific question and I’m excited to answer it. And I feel like it’s slightly different at either Institute. So at MIT, I felt as if the most traction I was getting with these ideas was, was absolutely with the student body.

[00:05:16] There were obviously very supportive faculty and administrators there as well, but it certainly hadn’t bubbled up yet in my mind, the power of, of creative entrepreneurship and the need for a space for creative entrepreneurs. To build their ventures, but it was absolutely already happening in the student body.

[00:05:37] And it wasn’t necessarily happening under the definition of creative entrepreneurship. They were just students who had these great ideas who are trying to activate them. They would come across some research that would trigger that would create a little glimmer of an idea of how they could possibly solve for X and then their enterprise thinking enough so that they pull somebody in from a different course over here and a student down the down the street from Harvard over here.

[00:06:00] And all of a sudden they’re having these dynamic backgrounds solving for big global issues. And so I did my best to create a more formalized sort of structure around that to allow for them to have exchange of ideas. So really it’s community building was the start at MIT a little bit different than Harvard, um, but equally exciting.

[00:06:20] Nir Hindi: [00:06:20] So it’s a spot on kind of point that you are touching that I really want to discuss with you because. Obviously, you know, the job environment, always looking for the STEM, the science, technology, engineering, and math, and we are always searching to a good from MBA program and engineering program. But even though we are looking for the STEM, you have all those artists, even they might be studying medicine or maybe studying engineering.

[00:06:46] Why do you think these young generation see the appeal of creativity? Understand the need of arts in our day to day? Yes. Even in the workplace, things that the older generation, if I would say, call it that way. They didn’t seem even connected. They didn’t see the relationship between art and other disciplines.

[00:07:07] Why these young ones you think are so attracted by arts?

[00:07:11] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:07:11] I love that question. And I say this all the time. I say this all the time, and I think it’s Picasso, but we’re all born artists and it is slowly taught out of us. And I think my answer is it is no longer slowly being taught out the new generation that is now being faced with epic problems. And so, and also to touch on the STEM in my thoughts around that everybody knows steam because we have to make sure the arts are represented. I feel that in fact, the arts are so integral. They permeate STEM so much that in fact it put them out and call attention to them in that way it does a disservice to it.

[00:07:54] It should be S a T a E a M a, because creativity is anywhere. There’s no innovation without creativity. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:03] What

[00:08:03] Nir Hindi: [00:08:03] do you recognize among this young generation, beside this understanding beside the fact that they actually see these, I would say big challenges that need to be identified and solved. What would you tell the business managers that listening to us what do they need to know about this young generation and creativity and arts?

[00:08:23] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:08:23] I would say first and foremost, keep your, keep your mind wide open for ideas to apply sort of the traditional model of what a transaction looks like does a disservice to your company. I think business managers need to rethink what commerce looks like. Rethink what sort of our social culture even is beginning to look like.

[00:08:46] You know, you mix in the pandemic into the formula and all of a sudden. Everything is different. And so in order to scale and grow and evolve and be athletic and flexible and pivot to your audience, to your customers, you need to have an open mind and you need to be willing to experiment and you need to be willing to take these ideas that this new generation is offering to us and really run with them without fear of failing, because it’s, it’s not a failure to step towards the actual correction that your company may need.

[00:09:18] Nir Hindi: [00:09:18] No, I think you did. What you said is that your students come and tell you I want to fail at least twice before I graduate, kind of show the pace that they see innovation and obviously I can already see frustration that they will have with the job environment. And I think it’s kind of a lesson for managers, how we can be more agile, more flexible to actually adapt to this young generation needs.

[00:09:43] So it’s kind of invite obviously a question  that I have in mind and I’m interested is that, how do you think the program influence your students?

[00:09:53] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:09:53] I think what it does first and foremost is showed the students that there are other students doing this. They’re not the only ones having these ideas and really wanting to execute on them and doing it in an empathetic way.

[00:10:06] And so I think when, you know, a new burgeoning entrepreneur has these ideas, when they see other people. Doing it, it allows them to feel as if they can do it too. It gives them permission in a way to go ahead and try. And that’s that’s when you have two students, even when you have four, it does the same thing exponentially and so on and so forth.

[00:10:26] And so all of a sudden you have a community of like-minded people who are all striving to do the same thing, solve for big problems with enterprise and art thinking. And, and it creates a really interesting culture that I think is particularly important right now. It’s, I mean, it’s a really inclusive culture that isn’t concerned with idea theft or territory.

[00:10:46] Everybody is in it to support everybody else because if one person succeeds the person next to them will have a much higher chance of doing the same thing and in the market is plenty big right now for problem-solving ventures that are built creatively. So he creates. Uh, community, uh, which I think is really probably the most important part of this, a community that the networks and continues to spread out.

[00:11:08] Nir Hindi: [00:11:08] One of the things that you mentioned, and I like is that this young generation actually in those competitions, especially break the barriers and disciplines. So. The teams that I meet, that you would have one from engineering, one from biology and one from the arts and they are all working together. And I can only wish that we would see more diverse team like this in real life.

[00:11:31] So, you know, Sam, what I did is that actually I took the time and I asked one of your students how the program influenced her.



[00:11:41]Sam. I want to ask you now about the program itself, the one that you are running now in them, how about the Lehman program on Creativity and Entrepreneurship, where you are actually the associate director?

[00:11:54] Tell us a bit about this program. What is the purpose? How does it actually looks? What will the students do? Well, the, I know I asked a lot of questions, so take it as you want.

[00:12:05] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:12:05] Absolutely. I’ve been very lucky to have this sort of smooth transition from one place to the other. Uh, I left MIT to join, uh, the Harvard initiative for learning and teaching, which is as an entrepreneur in residence, which is a platform for students, especially in education who have startup ideas.

[00:12:25] To find resources and funding. And so I had a one-year appointment there. Uh, and one of the reasons why I think I earned that appointment is because while at MIT I caught the bug, uh, and I have a few of my own ventures that I’m working on. Uh, they’ve been a lot of fun and they’ve informed me a lot and actually allowed me to speak with a little bit more authority about actually being an entrepreneur.

[00:12:47]but that job, uh, really nicely transitioned into this new one. And as you said, the Lehman program on creativity and entrepreneurship was funded by George Palo Lehman, a Brazilian who went to Harvard in the sixties, um, and went on to great success, seeing the need to help students activate the ideas that are generated in their research, generated in their general education in a way that can make positive and empathetic social change out in the world.

[00:13:15] And so what we’re trying to do is create a formal process. Where we teach those sorts of things. So we teach how to be a good global citizen. We teach.

[00:13:27] Nir Hindi: [00:13:27] How do you, do you teach someone to be a global citizen? Because it’s actually a program that every week they are doing it, right?

[00:13:32] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:13:32] Yes, it is. So the course in the two credit courses are following a really interesting structure.

[00:13:39] We have obviously tons of. Pedagogy experts subject matter experts around us to really put a lot of thought and effort into building this program in just the right way for the glue. Good global citizen piece, that the class, for example, we lean heavily on the SDGs that lay out the sustainable development goals that lay out 17 tiles on essentially best practices for each of these very important things.

[00:14:05] And so the class itself this year for obvious reasons is tackling problems that were laid bare by COVID. And so environment, climate change and social justice are three big parts of this. So that’s just one part of the Lehman program is this credit bearing class where we also talk about,  design thinking, uh, creative entrepreneurship, all of those are built into this class.

[00:14:29]but in addition to that, we have an accelerator where we have mentors. As you are one networking and funds to help support student ventures. And then again, just like at MIT, uh, trying to build the biggest possible multi-generational community filled with experts filled with diversity so that we can have the biggest bank of ideas possible.

[00:14:51] And then each support one another in, in actually launching those out into the world.

[00:14:55] Nir Hindi: [00:14:55] So how many students you have now participating in the program?

[00:14:59] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:14:59] So we just started this in September. I actually began, uh, remotely. So the end of March, I began my new job remotely. Uh, and I’ve done my best to build it with the vision of Dr. Rob Lou in, in mind. Uh, so dr. Lou was the faculty director for the Lehman program and he is by all accounts, rockstar professors, students absolutely loved him. He’s a professor of the practice in the sciences. And, uh, he sadly passed away recently. And so now the team at, at Lehman and the Institute are really, really doing our very best to carry Rob’s vision on.

[00:15:37] And that vision is student focused. The vision is to activate student ideas. The vision is to help Harvard students. Who wants to have an empathetic and positive social impact install for these big global problems. We really want to help them be able to do that. And so the accelerator, the community and the classes are all part of the program.

[00:15:59] And so right now, 50 teams and our first go round to answer your question. Five zero five zero teams. Yeah. So there’s interest, uh, which is great, which is great. And

[00:16:09] Nir Hindi: [00:16:09] we hope to scale who’s to say, thank you for inviting me. I’m mentoring three of those teams. And I have to admit I’m always passionate and excited to work with these young generation.

[00:16:19] First of all, it keeps me. Yeah. He’s like, first of all, it keeps me young. Second of all, I always like to see fresh idea and interesting idea. I mean, um, and what I love about the students, those are, they are very humble. So one of them tell me, Oh yeah. I mean, I was working on that and I’m asking him, okay, how many active users you have?

[00:16:39] Oh, no, it’s not a lot. Just 2000. I’m like what?

[00:16:43] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:16:43] Yes. Yeah.

[00:16:46] Nir Hindi: [00:16:46] So in this program is… for how long a student can join two, three, three months?

[00:16:52] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:16:52] Yeah. The Lehman program is focused primarily on undergraduates. Our hope is that we are really engaging them as quickly as we can, as they get into Harvard college and have their ideas.

[00:17:03] The thought is that the credit bearing courses would be sort of augmenting or, or moving alongside their other courses so that if they have an idea in one of the classes they’re taking, they can come with that idea to us and in partnership with faculty in partnership with the administration and the experts that we obviously have at Harvard, we help incubate those, those ideas

[00:17:25] Nir Hindi: [00:17:25] So this program just started now in Harvard but you already have experienced a few years in MIT and I’m wondering if there are. One, two, three projects that kind of you remember and worth knowing about. Can you tell us a story or stories about some of those projects?

[00:17:42] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:17:42] I thought of three that really specifically speak to the arts and not, and I was always talking about when I was at MIT. The continuum of the arts.

[00:17:50] And so you’re creating a venture. Let’s not focus on the consumer as much as we do typically let’s focus on the creative side of the continuum. And I think these three businesses do an interesting job of that. The first one was one of our earliest ones and its idea was to take discarded saris from India.

[00:18:11] Uh, the beautiful fabrics, uh, that had been outworn and then take those saris, buy them at a fair market value from the folks who are collecting them. Upcycled these saris into high fashion. So it was really a fashion based business. So you had sort of a vineyard vine look coming out of these upcycled saris, selling them at high target prices, and then making sure that they were then sending a very healthy and appropriate portion of that money back, uh, to help create this sort of dynamo of success between them west coast, you know, San Francisco based and in India. Uh, so that’s one.

[00:18:52] Another one that I thought was really interesting was called cherry stems. And in what it did. What’s allowed a user to capture a sound in their environment and then using a filter like an Instagram filter. So you’d have reggae pop electric D EDM.

[00:19:09] You could take that sound and place sort of a generalized feel over that sound and create your own little snapshots of sound. I thought that was really fascinating and it’s sort of. Help democratize, you know, create citizen artists in an interesting way and in a similar way that Instagram,

[00:19:27] Nir Hindi: [00:19:27] no, it’s amazing Sam, because now I think about.

[00:19:30] I dunno if you know, but the Snapchat actually started their residency with an artist doing something similar around sound

[00:19:38] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:19:38] filter.

[00:19:39] Feed. Well, there you go.

[00:19:43] Nir Hindi: [00:19:43] It seems to either that, or just be, you know, ahead of the market in few years, because now without the use of Tiktok, Reels, Snapchat, all those need more than just visual filters, but rather kind of sound filter.

[00:19:57] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:19:57] Amazing. You bring up an interesting point. Yeah. You get to see when you work in this space and you work in these places, these ideas that are brand new, they’re fresh and it’s so, so exciting. And then you see them come into market in some version form later on down the road. And it’s just a lot, a lot of fun and watching that happen.

[00:20:14] Nir Hindi: [00:20:14] Yeah. So in the third story, now I’m excited.

[00:20:18] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:20:18] So this is the one I really particularly loved because it really focused on the creative side. Part of that continuum and it’s called space us. And it’s a all female team out of MIT who. Wanted to repurpose storefronts in that in between time. And so say for instance, in Harvard square, you would have one store go out of business or move for whatever reason that space of time before the next one came in, they were able to renegotiate the basic lease.

[00:20:44] They were able to figure out how to interact with. The owners of the buildings with the town, uh, so that they could create pop-up spaces for artists, for local artists to show their work, to hold workshops. And it really, really took off. And it’s an idea that’s been around for a while. Uh, but they approached it with a creativity with a mind to design thinking in such a unique way that I, they found success where other people didn’t.

[00:21:09] And so that, I think that’s a really great example of creative entrepreneurs.

[00:21:12] Nir Hindi: [00:21:12] Yeah, totally. I want to mention another example because you actually connected us. And he was a guest on our podcast. Matthew Shiffrin and Matthew is, is blind and he actually won the competition with a helmet that they develop.

[00:21:29]listening to Matthew, talking about how the sound can enhance experience. Kind of go back to the startup. You just mentioned. It’s interesting. The two startups kind of dealt with sound. Normally we see it dealing with visual part of the world.

[00:21:45] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:21:45] So I wanted to bring them up, but I know that you did a podcast up for all your listeners head over there and check that one out after you finish this one.

[00:21:52] Nir Hindi: [00:21:52] Yeah. Just to make sure to give you kind of a, a bit of taste here is what Matthew said about the competition.

[00:22:06] So I want to ask you because you get to work a lot with very diverse culpable talent people that hopefully will lead the business environment, the social environments, the political may be realms. And one of the, at least on a personal level, one of the intersections that I’m interested is engineering and business and how they relate to the arts. And I wonder from your perspective, what are the opportunities for engineering and business world professional when they collaborate with these creative artists oriented talent.

[00:22:45] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:22:45] I think there’s a misconception that, uh, when you bring on an artist, you bring on somebody who is creative.

[00:22:51] You’re bringing them on to build a logo, to help with the interface on your website

[00:22:57] Nir Hindi: [00:22:57] and

[00:22:57] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:22:57] that’s. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s not. Th th that’s not the conversation we’re having. The conversation we’re having is, is, is about the artist’s mindset. Why is that important and so forth for businesses? You need to have that particular way of thinking at the table when you’re making decisions.

[00:23:15] And if you don’t have that way of thinking at the table, when you’re making decisions, you’re eliminating a lot of opportunity.

[00:23:21] Nir Hindi: [00:23:21] So actually it’s kind of opening new opportunities to look at the world maybe differently.

[00:23:26] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:23:26] Absolutely. And that is something that the artist is trained to do that the artist, uh, is particularly good at their ability to solve problems, this art thinking, uh, that I love talking about it.

[00:23:36] It is a trained and also very useful, I think, to bring to problem solving.

[00:23:41] Nir Hindi: [00:23:41] But it’s this out mindset thinking that you mentioned.

[00:23:45] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:23:45] One thing I realized when I started doing all of this, because I came out of teaching studio arts is that as an art artist and I love to write and draw. And as a teacher of the arts, uh, students have to practice a certain way of being able to accept criticism, uh, being able to include that, that feedback into their work, being able to even allow that work to be looked at.

[00:24:09] There are a handful of different areas that I think build a resiliency. In an artist, uh, that is crucial, uh, for being able to experiment successfully in other fields. And so artists are always trying to get to that ideal conception, right? Whether it’s dance, poetry, flat work, conceptual work, whatever it is, they’re always trying to get to a goal, an ideal goal.

[00:24:34] And quite often, most of us never do. And so we so embrace experimentation and I guess. Failure. I don’t, I would never call it failure, uh, that it creates this, this resiliency. And so art thinking is a way of approaching problems that engages randomness loves associative thinking knows that diversity is the key for being able to actually put together disparate thoughts and to new creative solutions.

[00:25:05] Uh, and it is, uh, the ability to persist through criticism and not allow it to affect your ego as much as others might so that you’re still open to other people’s ideas and collaborations.

[00:25:19] Nir Hindi: [00:25:19] Yeah. Spot on. I mean, I will add to this, you know, the ability of the artist to actually observe and lead with questions and offer alternative.

[00:25:28] I think the biggest realization that I had spending so many years without this is that art is not an object. Art is a mindset. People always focus on the painting, on the book, on the song without realizing that this is just the end result of a journey of a thinking process, what you do at your work.

[00:25:47] It’s exactly what we are looking for in the business for this process. That will allow companies to survive in the long run and society, obviously

[00:25:56] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:25:56] to really take that process apart and take a look at it and realize that, Oh my gosh, everybody can do this. Everybody could walk in into a place and start thinking like an artist with the appropriate work put in really can.

[00:26:09] And it is very exciting place to be.

[00:26:11] Nir Hindi: [00:26:11] So I want to ask you. Most of the time when I do my trainings around art mindset, when I give my keynote most of the time, what people tell me that it’s about creativity, I’m not creative. Art is not for me. And you just said something that I think is spot on. I want to shed light on what you said.

[00:26:31] What would you tell the people that think they’re not creative or that out is not for them?

[00:26:36] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:26:36] That they’re wrong and that they are creative and they haven’t seen it, or they’re not willing to recognize it, or somebody needs to help them really find out and redefine what their creativity is. Everybody’s creative.

[00:26:49] There’s no such thing as a non-creative person, they’re just exercising and practicing it in ways that maybe they’re not recognizing as creative. So I feel that everybody really engages with creativity every day. And it’s just a matter of reframing. How you’re thinking about that creativity. I don’t want to undersell the importance of, of work and of putting time in to be good at the craft of expressing your creativity.

[00:27:20] So I’m not saying everybody is out the door. Creating beautiful product. And again, that’s not even necessary, but everybody has creativity in them. We wouldn’t be surviving if we didn’t, it’s a way of evolving. It’s a way of reacting to our environment. It’s a way of solving problems. And so I find it really exciting that we’re sort of in a space we’re in a time where we’re re-engaging with creativity.

[00:27:46] Recognizing the value of it again, and it is cyclical. It seems like a swinging of a pendulum. But now with the tools we have. the technological tools, uh, this new ability to speak to a much broader audience. I, I feel like we’re entering a new time for the celebration of creativity. And it’s very exciting.

[00:28:04]Nir Hindi: [00:28:04] Let’s assume now I’m a listener. I don’t think about myself creative as a creative person. You convince me, Sam, do you have one advice to give me what I can do to maybe re-engage or re or ignite this creative passion inside me. What should I do? Maybe one thing that you would recommend,

[00:28:25] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:28:25] I feel very strongly that drawing should be taught in the same way that writing is taught.

[00:28:29] So writing is, is this one I think is so interesting writing is this thing that we all do, we all have to do. It’s a craft that comes in its highest form, beautiful expressions of art. So we’re all writing all day long. I feel drawing is the same thing. I feel. Drawing should be taught because it is an iterative process.

[00:28:48] People say I’m horrible at drawing and look at my stick figure. Well, no, that is step one of drawing. And I would say, find the thing that interests you or scares you the most, the thing you haven’t been trying, and you have been specifically avoiding. And just start doing it and be unapologetic about it and share it with just the right people to start with and then share it with more people and realize that you are walking through a process, just like everybody else does.

[00:29:13] And you know, I had to hit 20,000 hours before I even got past the stick figure, but many people luckily, may have talents in there that get them to that point faster, but don’t be afraid of it. Go for it. There’s no reason not to.

[00:29:26] Nir Hindi: [00:29:26] Yeah. What’d you just said kind of invites immediately two example that I have in my mind that he’s a professor in Australia.

[00:29:32] That’s actually developed kind of a small helmet that sent pules to your right brain for 10 minutes. And he let people draw a dog and he let them draw the dog. After 10 minutes, they, you send the pules to ignite the right brain. And it’s amazing to see how people start and then how they finish. And the second one is that, as you said, You might discover inside you the artists.

[00:29:57] And it reminds me of Richard Feynman, the physicist, uh, that actually started to paint a draw at the end of his life. So many excited stories and connections that can go for so many places.

[00:30:10] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:30:10] I’m just going to plug drawing one more time. It is, it is such an important practice to do your best to draw every day.

[00:30:17] And, and I’m not saying you need to sit down in front of a canvas with charcoal and create a fabric study. I, the doodles that people, I watch, everybody doodle during meetings all the time. They’re drawing, they’re drawing and they’re connecting their hand and their eye and their brain. And it’s unconscious.

[00:30:34] All at the same time.

[00:30:35] Nir Hindi: [00:30:35] Exactly. Exactly. It’s not only creative thinking. It’s also creative doing all the time, kind of invoke more ideas, that things that I saw in that, I guess you are familiar with this research that you didn’t actually show that Nobel prize winners are three times more likely to do art, because apparently when you do art with your hands, you develop exactly what you said.

[00:30:59] You’re connecting your hand to your brain. Things that we are not even aware of. When we actually draw, many of you started to draw. Maybe we can do online exhibition on devotee and website after SM recommendation.

[00:31:14] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:31:14] Absolutely. We would love it. We

[00:31:16] Nir Hindi: [00:31:16] are getting into the end of our podcast. And I want to ask you kind of a last, maybe last thoughts or things you have about this intersection of art and business, art and engineering art and technology.

[00:31:30] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:31:30] It’s an unstoppable movement. It’s happening. It’s happened and it’s going to continue to happen. And I think the people that are onboard sooner, Who embraced the arts sooner will have the competitive advantage, uh, when this is an all encompassing thing, when the creative mindset and the creative practice, uh, is truly recognized for how well, it actually serves in that purpose is solving problems. And I am just so excited that we’re entering this new time and despite the pandemic and despite some of the recent social unrest that I think all of us have, have seen in one way or another creativity, couldn’t be injected into, into the group, think.

[00:32:18] Yeah, at a better time and, uh, we need it.  and, and, and I’m so excited to be working with the students that I’m working with and to be doing my best to promote this, this mindset with you. Uh, so I think just hold on and watch what happens. It’s going to be exciting.

[00:32:34] Nir Hindi: [00:32:34] I would say Amen to everything  you said,

[00:32:39] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:32:39] Amen.

[00:32:40] Nir Hindi: [00:32:40] Sam. Thank you very, very much for your generosity for your time. For the great work you are doing all around the world in those intersections, count on me. And, and to always be part of every adventure that you are taking.

[00:32:54] Sam Hunter Magee: [00:32:54] This was a blast. And thank you so much for, for asking me to join you today. And, and, and for being a partner with me in this movement, I really appreciate it.

[00:33:03] And thanks very, very much.