season 2 episode 23 – New Humanism | Andrew Zolli

In this episode, Andrew Zolli, Chief Impact Officer at Planet, the imagery company, speaks about the initiative he leads, “Art as Planet.” We discuss what the role of art in communicating scientific vision is? How artists have been helping in shaping an innovative culture in a satellite company, and why should small startups launch their own artist in residence?

Zolli is a technologist, strategic foresight expert, and author. In the past he was the primary creative and curatorial force behind PopTech, a well-known innovation, and social change network; he served as a Fellow of the National Geographic Society and served on the Boards of the Brooklyn Academy of Music.

Nico Daswani The Artian Podcast


The transcript was produced by an AI, mistakes might appear. 

[00:00:00] Nir Hindi: hey, Andrew. Welcome to The Artian podcast.

Hey, it’s great to be with you,

Andrew. Can you take a moment? To introduce yourself.

[00:00:09] Andrew Zolli: Sure. My day job is overseeing the global, impact and sustainability portfolio of an organization called planet. That’s deployed the largest constellation of earth, observing satellites in history.

Those satellites orbit the earth in a giant ring. And every day they image the entire surface of the earth in high resolution at about three meters per pixel, which isn’t enough to read your newspaper, but it’s enough to see every tree and every building and every road in the world but more broadly I write and think about the uses of advanced technology and the ways in which we can use them to address really complex and intractable challenges, because this is a period of such tremendous volatility and disruption, much of it caused by our.

Uh, rival on the planet and we are really the driving force of a lot of the change and a lot of the disruption. And so being able to use that information to live more lightly, uh, and more respectfully on the earth is really what, what my daily

[00:01:14] Nir Hindi: job is.

So one of the reasons that I wanted to speak with you is not only that you mix humanities, social responsibilities. Space technologies. Future reason. But you also lead one of the projects that I’m fond of. Which is the ad program at planet.

Yeah. Yeah,

[00:01:37] Andrew Zolli: that’s absolutely right. And it’s one of our most beloved programs. Uh, so planet put, has put up hundreds of satellites into orbit and one of the programs that we love the most, and that receives a lot of attention. Uh, these are satellites that are about the size of a loaf of bread.

So we have these hundreds of satellites on orbit and we, the satellites are covered in thermal panels and the panels. Uh, we can then laser etch artwork on them. This is a program that was started by our founding artists and writers forest Stearns and has since expanded to cover, uh, dozens of, of different artists.

And we have one part of the program where we’re literally putting art on spacecraft, and we’re putting art on rocket ships and we’re putting art on the, on the radar dishes that collect the data when it comes back down from the satellites. So we put it on all of our physical stuff, all of the physical assets, but we also, then each year we select from hundreds of applications of really extraordinary artists who we work with.

We actually, uh, give them a stipend and a residency and resources and access to the technology and access to. Engineers and the rest of our staff to be work with us, to, to make art that isn’t necessarily going to go into space, but is about our relationship to the planet or our relationship to each other.

As we understood sort of through this, this giant technological system that we’ve built and the work that’s coming out is amazing. It is just incredible to see these artists do it

[00:03:25] Nir Hindi: it’s just amazing.

[00:03:26] Andrew Zolli: I mean, I hope you can, your listeners might be my, uh, just listening to this.

And so I hope they can hear in my voice, like it’s, it is just as odd, inspiring to see. What the artists do with these technologies that go into space as it is to actually watch these technologies go into space. It’s really an amazing,

[00:03:47] Nir Hindi: So Andrew, you’re touching so many points. I want to refer to. But maybe before that, I want to. Take you one step back. And ask you a question about doubt this. In the residence program that you have. Especially in a company like. Planet satellite company. Often, when I talk about artists in residence programs in companies.

These people tend to think that it’s. It’s only the big rich, famous company that have those programs. Now what fascinated me about planet is that. You started the artist in residence program. When you were 24 people company. And I think it’s an amazing to think that the startup. Up with 24. People actually hire a painter to lead.

An artist in residence program. Now, obviously startups. At that stage. Are obsessed with every dollar. Did they. Have in the spent. And what I’m trying. Trying to understand is what is the logic? Behind that. Actually

bringing a painter is the 25th employee In a satellite company Okay, can you explain me This please

[00:05:03] Andrew Zolli: It’s a great point. I think it really has to do with the distinctive vision of the people who founded planet. So I, I joined planet. I like to joke when we had, you know, we didn’t have satellites on our bed. We had hoodies and aspirations. There was, this was a small team of engineers and it was, uh, an engineering and research and development project at that point to figure out how to do it, how to get all of these.

So if you met the original team from planet and you saw them at a hundred meters, You might think to yourself, these people will never get anything done. They look like a bunch of scruffy folks, but if you start to, to talk to them, if you got close and really engage them, two things became immediately clear.

The first one was that these are the only people who are going to get this done. This kind of work requires an intensely detailed technological vision, and they had it. No question, but on top of that, they also had this rhetoric about using space to help life on earth. It wasn’t about the, sometimes when human beings go into places that are extraordinary, that are out of the ordinary of lived experience.

I’m talking here about people who cross the Arctic. Or people do polar expeditions or people who, who go to the edge of human experience. They do it for the thrill. They do it for the ego satisfaction. This group of people wanted to do this work, not just to explore which isn’t a terrific reason for wanting to do these things, not just to push the limits of, of our capabilities, but to help humanity navigate this moment of incredibly complex transitions.

That combination of values and technological aspiration was very distinctive. It wasn’t common. It doesn’t really matter what size of organization you’re describing, because it’s not common in little organizations all the time.

It’s not common in big organizations all the time, this ability to fuse. And you hear, unfortunately, I think you, you often hear a lot of, I would describe it as sort of sanctimonious language from Silicon valley. You know, we’re, we’re building this dating app and we’re going to change the world. No, you’re not, you know, you might become millionaire many times over one world.

It might change, but the world is going to be held largely the same. So to, to really dig into the, to the answer, to your question, why, why did planet have this instinct when it was. It really comes from this conversation between a couple of people. But I want to, in order to understand it, I have to just tell you a word about why planet was founded.

Like what’s the backdrop what’s happening?

[00:08:01] Nir Hindi: So, what is the backdrop?

[00:08:02] Andrew Zolli: The backdrop isn’t about Silicon valley. It’s not about technology and it’s not about space. Those are those things will come into this story in a minute. But what is interesting is what’s happening on earth. So human beings, we now live in the age of humans.

We live in what’s called the Anthropocene. The period of time when human beings have not become a major factor of change, we’ve become the major factor of change. We are living in the decade where we will either avoid or lock in the most serious consequences of climate change. We will either turn the ship where we won’t turn the ship, but we’re currently the, our ship is headed into dangerous and very volatile waters, waters that will have. Tremendous consequence for humanity. So in order to make or to take effective action, the first step is to see yourself in context,

[00:08:57] Nir Hindi: to raise awareness in a

[00:08:58] Andrew Zolli: way,

even more than that, you know, every instrument of scientific discovery is also an instrument of moral distress.

We invent the alphabet, the microscope, the internet, the gene sequencer. And in every instance, we begin to see ourselves differently in, we see ourselves in context, and that seeing yourself in context is the first step to taking moral responsibility for the stewardship of the earth, which is really what planet. And we’re we’re yes, we’re selling, you know, data and where we’re trying to make a going company, but it’s to do that. It’s difficult. Fill that mission. So here’s the thing that’s interesting about that.

We only get to do that mission. That mission is only fulfilled. If everybody can use those kinds of tools to steward their portion of the earth. And in order to do that, we need people to feel like space is something that belongs to them. And so why did point at when we have 24 people decide to put art on satellites? It’s because it humanizes the mission, puts the human thumbprint on space in a way that you don’t have to be a scientist with specialized access. To get access. And, and also because art is a different way of knowing it creates a different way of understanding

[00:10:22] Nir Hindi: so I want to know why, why do you. I think out is a different way of knowing.

I think

[00:10:28] Andrew Zolli: it has to do somewhat with the status of facts. I’m speaking to you, you know, with a whole bunch of technology, there’s, there’s microphones in front of you and there’s microphones in front of me and cameras in front of you and cameras in front of me and the internet between us computers and all of these other things.

They are the, the manifestation of a kind of technocratic society. And one of the core implicit assumptions of Western society is about the role of family in creating understand. Because in order to build all those technologies that are allowing you and I to have this conversation, we had to proceed from fact to fact, but for many other domains, in which we have to encourage human behavior, we don’t go from fact to behavior.

We go from emotion to behavior. We move from feeling to doing, not from understanding to doing understanding is important. Often for creating the feelings that motivate us to action. Right? But if you take the feeling out, you have often denuded you’ve diminished the power of the arguments. Just think about it like this.

Think about climate change. I was just telling you a whole bunch of facts about the earth a minute ago. I could give you 50 more facts, a hundred more facts, a thousand more facts, a million more facts. And there are a million more facts but those facts, if you’re not convinced by the first 10 facts you met probably are not going to be convinced by a million facts, but you might be motivated to act on one fact by the right kind of feeling. And that feeling is, and that sensation that way of knowing. That’s what the arts that’s.

The arts is a different pathway. It’s why we weep. When we hear certain passages of music, why we link we’re in front of paintings, we don’t linger in front of spreadsheets. We don’t, most of them don’t linger in front of the wiring diagrams. They are, they represent, I will say those things have their own kind of beauty, but for most people, what we have to do is create feelings of connection. How do I come to understand the truth of our Intercom connection? Well, I think of the arts as a technology of interconnection, they show us and reveal to us both the ways in which we are in no bold.

They elevate us. They reveal ourselves to us. They reveal the world to us and the revealed the relationships to us

[00:13:12] Nir Hindi: listening to you, Andrew. Uh, Just shows me why I really am fascinated by planet because it’s a company that puts technology in the service of human in, or the other way around. And often when we see technology companies, especially before the pandemic, it seems to me that it always humans at the service of technology. And not the other way. Around. So I want to ask you something about the program that you are currently running. And I want to read the mission statement of the program. And I would like to get your thoughts. On that. So, what do you all saying or what you’re writing? Uh, on your website which we obviously would share on the show notes.

Is that the mission or the vision of the program? Is basically we hold a bedrock belief in the power of the outs to enrich challenge and expand our understanding of life on earth. Now I’m using the squat because you are very scientific oriented company. And often, we are living in a society that admires the stem thinking. Science technology, engineering and math. Uh, and often as a society, we tend to give more value to the science. And in a way neglect, maybe the outs. And I’m interested. Why do you think we need the arts to understand life on earth is your mission statement.

Uh, suggests.

[00:14:53] Andrew Zolli: Well, the first thing I would say about that, that’s a, it’s a really great question.

I think the first thing is that the arts represent sort of half of our brains. You know, I, this is, I actually just kind of talk about this in a way that doesn’t use this more for it, because I feel like it’s a, it’s too simplistic, a metaphor but I guess, I guess what I would say to you is that what is needed now is a new humanism is a new whole brained kind of organization and systems of thinking and ways of valuing. So maybe instead of thinking about it, like, why do we need the arts when we have science.

Because I want to say in some ways it’s a powerful question and in some ways, and I mean this with deep affection, it’s kind of an extraordinarily, it’s an extraordinary question to ask, because think about what it would mean if the premise of the question were true. If the premise of the question, first of all, there’s two different ways of understanding this.

The first of all, it would assume that science has all the answers, which it doesn’t, it just doesn’t, we, science is not a repository. It’s not merely a repository of what is known, but it’s also a way of interrogating what is not known. And so science is continually reframing, revising, questioning, expanding invalidating.

It’s a, it’s a system of knowing and part of the process of learning and knowing through science is understanding the vast, vastly larger train. We do not know. The second thing is that most people. Don’t think like scientists, but most people don’t think like most other people period, which is to say most people don’t think like doctors, most people don’t think like lawyers, most people don’t think like scientists, but people think like people, and there’s a great diversity of ways of knowing.

But even if we were to say, okay, well we have this one system of knowledge that is important. We would be invalidating, not just the arts, but all of the other ways of knowing the indigenous modes of modalities of wisdom. And this is the tension that I would get at in your question, because when you look at cultures around the world who have lived in not in perfect equilibrium with the world, because we’ve never had perfect equal.

But healthy systems live in dynamic disequilibrium. They live kind of wobbling around a kind of center of gravity because change happens. But change has happened in ways that could be reintegrated to allow a kind of like movement around a healthy center. And what you find in societies that have been very long lived societies is that they take very long-term views of the future

[00:17:56] Nir Hindi: And basically we are leaving from quarter to quarter and from election to election.

[00:18:02] Andrew Zolli: Exactly. And, and often, you know, in our last, uh, presidential administration in the us, we lived from tweet to tweet. We li we would live often from hour to hour and, and this sense of the world is sort of unmanageable fast. Our society, when researchers a wonderful researcher at the university of British Columbia refers to us as weird and what he means is Western industrialized educated, rich, and democratic. Those societies, those weird societies are really outliers in the way that we think we are outliers from the rest of humanity.

To bring it back to the question you asked, which is what is the arts give you? When I described it as the arts are a technology they’re a way of knowing they’re a way of understanding their way of illuminating connection. The hyper fragmented hyper accelerated world that we live in is an illusion.

It’s not the totality of the human experience by a long shot. So when art inspires stillness in us, when it allows us to experience. Information, both emotionally, intellectually kinesthetically, aesthetically. At the same time, it is returning us to something which is much more like the human norm and taking the blinders of this kind of society off.

And so we do need the power of those tools. We do need the power of those technologies, but we need to unite them to a more comprehensive and a noble sense of what our human faculties provide us than just what that narrow band of information provides us.

[00:19:52] Nir Hindi: yeah. You know, probably you already understand that. The reason I ask you this question, because we often hear educators. Business leaders, government officials saying we need to teach only stem. So hearing it from you, some of that work.

In a cutting edge, satellite space technology companies. And seeing these vision, I think it’s kind of a lesson. For everyone to, to learn from. So. Thank you for that. I think it’s very important to the mission that we are trying to promote The Artian. Eh, Andrew, before I would ask you about the second part of the mission statement or the vision statement.

Let’s take a short break.

Thanks for coming back. So Andrew. For the second part of the mission or vision statement. Um, I want to ask you. And it goes. Like this, we bring together. Out in science to build a culture of creative entrepreneurship. And innovation at planet. And my question is how does art contribute to building a culture of innovation? What, what do you think.

[00:21:09] Andrew Zolli: I, I reflect on work that has been done on the progress of scientific teams, research teams. There’s a, a number of researchers who have looked at the kind of when you’re solving a complex problem, whether it’s a complex engineering problem or you’re doing the work of science, both of the science and engineering have a, a certain aspect that they share in common.

They’re, they’re not the same thing, engineering and science or. But they do share some common elements. And one of those elements is sustained contact with new and ambiguous information. I try, I’m trying to figure something out. I’m either trying to make it work for in the context of a larger system I’m building or I’m just trying to understand it.

And so I try something and I call that an engineering exercise or, or a scientific experiment. And then I collect some information and the information is often people think that, you know, our mental model of, of those activities is that the data tells a story. But anyone who works with data will tell you that often data is telling you like a thousand stories and some of the stories are contradictory and it’s confusing and ambiguous.

So now you’re encountering ambiguous information. And the question is, how do you make sense? What’s the sense-making process. And what various anthropologists have found is that when teams are filled with the people from the same background, they tend to use the same metaphors to decode the ambiguity.

So they will look at a situation and say, ah, okay, I’m using my prior knowledge to interpret these results. And so if it’s a bio group of biologists, they’ll all use the same references to prior biological experiments to try to deduce what’s going on in the data. If however, the teams are filled with biologists and chemists and physicists and engineers and designers and artists and weirdos and all kinds of other, you know, like a much broader array of people, then the analogical reasoning field is wider and those teams tend to make progress faster because they are reasoning about the data, about the ambiguity that they’re confronted with with a wider variety of metaphors.

It could be more like this. It could be more like this. Hey, we’d never connect. That it could be like this from this field. And so what you need is enough diversity, so that you widen the field of interpretation and you need to counterbalance that with enough consistency so that people are able to talk to each other, because if they’re just radically diverse, they will have trouble explaining themselves to it.

So there are sort of an outward pressure to diversify and an inward pressure to consolidate your perspective. So the important thing here is, is how you get those two things to live together.

[00:24:14] Nir Hindi: How do you have a tip? How to get these types together. Because one of the things that. I’ve noticed is that the moment you tell a business manager. About artists. In the organization. Immediately. They think about people entering into the corporate offices and start to spray paint.

Now it has its own value. But what would you say to them?

[00:24:41] Andrew Zolli: Yes. And, and, you know, there, I will just say we shouldn’t diminish the impact of that because one of the things that people coming in and spray painting on the walls does is it signals to people in their culture that you can bend the rules that the world is more elastic. The idea is that the arts, when they’re given manifestation in our, in your physical spaces is a reminder of the kind of.

Alternative perspectives and creative permissions that good cultures have good cultures balance that inward drive to consistency and the outward drive to, to diversify the perspectives. And, and when we talk about diversity, we, you know, we talk about the essential aspects of diversity in terms of race and age and gender and ethnicity and background and life experience to these other essential aspects.

We can also add cognitive diversity, the, the range of different ways of thinking. And one of the challenges in many corporations is that, you know, human beings don’t come. Instruction manuals. And when you enter into an organization, one of the first things you have to do as an employee is figure out how will I succeed here?

What is really expected of me put the job description aside for a moment. What does the culture of this place demand? And typically organizations don’t have a book that says culture manual for our company, right? Here’s how to, here’s how to succeed. And so what people do is they, they learn by emulate.

And that creates a culture often where the leader and leaders of the organization, their cognitive styles get copied. If you find that the leader likes really long verbose arguments, you’ll find yourself starting to make really long verbose arguments. If you find that the leader likes really, really short pithy, you know, just give me the bullet points.

I don’t want the detail. You’ll find yourself synthesizing the bullet points for them. What happens unfortunately is that can create a culture of cognitive lock-in of group think of everybody following the cognitive style that they think is the one that should lead them to the right solution. So, and that turns out to be one of the death knells of innovation, because in order to think differently, you have to have a culture.

Encourages and permits you to think differently, embedding the arts. It’s not the only thing we do. You also need a culture where it’s okay to ask impolite questions where it’s okay to stop a process that you don’t think is right. And question it. And, and the culture has to be sufficiently robust to absorb those kinds of actions, but alongside those kinds of systems of being able to ask questions and think differently is the way in which different ways of knowing and different ways of understanding, which comes from the arts.

It also sends a signal. So that’s how we, we think about it because the thing that I would say to any organization is that. The hyper accelerated world that we’re living through and the kind of intrinsically disrupted world we’re living through means you’re going to have to pivot over and over again.

You’re going to have to go, oh, we tried that didn’t work. Let’s try this. And the speed with which you do that is going to be a measure of success and the fluidity and dynamism of the culture that allows you to do that is the greatest source of, of strength for most organizations and resilience in the face of all that disruption.

And so enabling and signaling that you can think this way or these, all these different ways is, is important. So we, I like to think of us as, as sort of binding on our values. Binding on the mission, but then diversifying all of the ways of thinking about how you fulfill that mission and all the different ways in which you manifest those values.

So don’t bind on one way of thinking, or you will find yourself in a monoculture and then in a place where you can’t pivot. And that’s what is required is, is immense flexibility in

[00:29:02] Nir Hindi: this time.

So I’m interested to know is someone that. Is responsible for bringing the arts into the organization. How do you choose the artist that will participate? In the artist in residence. Program. How do you know. That they are the ones that can feed. Into the organization or country. Contribute. To the mission that you have at planet.

[00:29:29] Andrew Zolli: When we were thinking about who we’re going to work with, when we’re thinking about artists, first of all, we’re looking at.

Many different things. One is, are they able to think about more than one dimension? There are wonderful magnificent artists that are hyper specialized in one narrow field of traditional work. And they may or may not be the right fit for what we’re looking for. We just named the first few artists of, our artists and residents, the first one.

I, I don’t think she’ll be bothered by mentioning her. Her name is Holly grim. Holly is a, a painter and an artificial intelligence expert. She’s been developing algorithms that turn her very traditional paintings of landscapes into portraits, by training algorithms, to convert one into the other. She’s member of the Navajo nation. She’s based in the Southwest. And she’s interested in ways in which human beings have transformed the landscape of the Southwest. And so she’s able to use satellite imagery and her painting techniques and her machine learning techniques to explore that work in more than one dimension. That’s the kind of thinker who is in her practice.

Her practice is. Uh, wider in terms of its facility with traditional techniques, artistic, uh, and art making techniques and her ability to use the kinds of tools and technologies and to innovate in their application. And I think she’s wonderful. She’s an amazing artist and everyone should know about her should go Google her.

The second one that we picked was, uh, a woman named Tanya Ximena she’s based in Mexico. And she’s looking at the disappearing landscapes in a very particular place, along a river that is at the border of Mexico and Guatemala. And she’s making physical installation work that will go into a museum.

And the satellite imagery is part of the kind of physical space. So she’s combining physical installation, multimedia work with an environmental lens on a particular place. And the satellite imagery. So again, it’s very multi-dimensional and all of the artists that we work with have, or many of them, I should say, have this, have this capability.

So we are interested in seeing how they stretch their understanding and often how they’re inventing new methods and how we might be able to amplify and accelerate their work and especially an additional lenses. How might their work, the Luminate places on the earth, where there are other stakeholders and where there are other communities who might change their perspective on place, through the lens of the work itself without ever knowing about planet, like someone’s going to counter Holly’s work and someone’s gonna encounter Tanya’s work in a way.

We’ll only be marginally reference. It’ll only marginally reference the satellite stuff, the satellite data and the technology, but it might create that experience for them that encourages them to do something different or to understand this place in a new way. And so we’re also trying to, one of the things we’re trying to do at planet is encourage people all over the world to do that.

So we’re looking for artists from all over the world where we can help create those sort of beacons of artistic light that radiate to local communities. We’re looking at indigenous artists and in various communities and artists from every continent.

[00:33:19] Nir Hindi: A lot of exciting works

Yes. For sure

that everyone can go and see. On planet’s website. Again, we will add the links. To everything Andrew mentioned in the show notes, make sure to check it. So Andrew, we. We are getting into the end of the podcast. And I want. To ask you. Eh, one last question. What did you gain from the artist you interact with in planet why did you learn from Them or what even surprised you

 I think

[00:33:50] Andrew Zolli: one of the things that is I’m sh I’m thinking cause there, because I’ve learned something different from each of them.

And I want to tell you that it’s very important for our listeners to know that this is a UN organization. Effort. It’s not just me personally. I mean, I can share my perspectives as an individual, but everything from the, the work itself, the selection of the artists is a manifestation of a collective instinct.

And it’s actually collectively managed by a team that comes from all different parts of the company. And it wouldn’t be the same if it wasn’t just like that. If just one person’s, you know, views or one person selections, it would be a different thing I’ve learned. First of all, I’ve been surprised by some of them, there are emotional states.

I’ve never associated with satellite imagery, like humor and, and beauty and juxtaposition and rhythm and tempo that I’ve learned from some of them when you’re monitoring the earth every day, you capture not just a picture, but you almost like a musical score and there’s a kind of poetry to the. I think maybe one way to say this is if you were going to invent this ability 10 years ago or 20 years ago, if you were going to talk about the ability to watch anywhere on the earth or everywhere on the earth every day, you would have put that in the person of the superhero, you know, with a Cape, you know, you’d write a comic book about Dr.

Omniscient or something like this. When you have the ability to think about the earth as something that you can see you, there is a new human sense, like the sense of smell or sight or sound, which is a kind of planetary sense. Like I am in relation to the planet. How is that relationship going for the planet?

On the other side of the relationship that I have, it’s not about me. It’s about it and understanding. Uh, kind of having an independent sense of how the planet is doing is awesome in the literal sense, it inspires awe and reverence. And so you have this kind of, it is at once makes you feel very powerful to be able to see the planet on hand.

It also makes you feel

[00:36:22] Nir Hindi: humble. No.

[00:36:22] Andrew Zolli: Yeah, that’s right. And it’s a weird mix of power and humility to have to come together in the same experience and, and the best work of the artists that I’ve seen. And I think about forests Stern’s work and an artist that we had named Rochelle Gribble others like Rochelle Riker.

They’re all, there’s a long list of wonderful artists, but what’s interesting about them is that they add another dimension to that experience of power and all which is about. Taking the understanding of the whole, and then zooming into a piece or understanding that even though you think you’re ha you’re, you’re seeing this experience in it’s totality, that it changes in its all, its facets down to the tiniest little level in a particular place.

And so I don’t even think I have the language to describe fully what that feels like, but, but I don’t have the language fully to describe what it means to look like, look at a Picasso or look at, you know, some other magnificent piece of art. It’s all kind of approximations of language.

[00:37:34] Nir Hindi: I really loved how you put it there, Andrew, you know, I always say that. Uh, for me out. Just help us understand what we don’t know. They give us kind of language and forms to those things that are greater than us as humans. Uh, so, so thank you for again, Forcing. My own thoughts about out. Eh, and the world.

Andrew. True. Thank you very, very much for coming on the podcast and sharing all your thoughts. Uh, About the. Technology science satellites building innovative. Uh, culture. I really appreciate the work you are doing. It, eh, The planet, please continue. I think it’s super important that we will have more and more examples like that, that art, science technology engineering of all one, and we need to create more of these. Opportunities.

[00:38:30] Andrew Zolli: Well, thank you so much. I’m so honored to have this opportunity to share some of what we’re doing and you keep doing what you’re doing too. It’s so important for people to understand that you don’t have to be a Silicon valley startup to do any of this.

This is something that, you know, these things that we’re talking about here, they are the artifacts by which we know our past when civilizations pass and all civilizations. This is what they leave behind. They leave behind their tools and their art. And so everybody should be contributing where they can to both of those things for our greater wealth and abundance.

So thank you for doing what you’re doing

[00:39:15] Nir Hindi: Beautiful message to finish our podcast. Uh, once again, Andrew. Thank you very, very much. Have a great day.