season 2 episode 6 – what leaders need: brain, guts, and heart | Danica Purg

Resources and links

Artworks and other topics mentioned during the podcast can be seen in the following links:

• IEDC – Bled School of Management website
• CEEMAN’s website
• Miha Pogačnik’s website
• Edgar Schein’s Wikipedia page
• IEDC – Bled School of Management Art
• CNN’s 25 of the most beautiful places around the world

Credits:

• IEDC – Bled School of Management
• Financial Times

Transcripts

The transcript was produced by an AI, mistakes might appear.

[00:00:00] Nir Hindi: Hey Danica. Welcome to the Artian podcast.

Danica Purg: Hello. Hello.

Nir Hindi:  I am super excited because you are pioneer in the field of, art and management, but before we will get into these things that you are doing. I am interested. Can you introduce yourself briefly to our listeners?

Danica Purg: Yes, of course, with big pleasure.

My name is Danica, and I am from Slovenia I am all the beginning from my youth early use. I was always interested in to do the things, you know, for better. Always, I was leading as a child already and all the little things in the village, et cetera.

Later, I went to study political science. I wanted to be an actress, so I have a little bit of art, but I did not get a scholarship, so I decided then to go to political science where I got the scholarship, and I was in any case interested in politics too.

I graduated at [00:01:00] University of Ljubljana. Then I went in the meantime, I also went to study to United States and to Sorbonne for a year. I also worked there all the time to, you know, to survive. To pay my studies and I, uh, went to work to Belgrade for four years because I heard that they have many, many theaters.

And I like to go to see doctors and worked in the capital of the former Yugoslavia, which was very, very interesting. And then I returned, and I became a faculty member person, or the faculty of organizational work. I was very much interested in the meaning of work. How to make this work more meaningful for people, especially for workers.

I made some films about that in that period. And then I got an offer to make a first management school in Eastern central Europe. And then of course my interesting life only started all its centers. [00:02:00] And today it is 35 years. That is, I am a president of the Bled School of Management.

Nir Hindi: There is something unique about this school.

This school’s entire philosophy is art based. Even though it is a business school, you integrate it art as in. Coherent inherent part of the studies. Now it started with the school’s location and architecture. It continues in the working and learning spaces that all include contemporary art. And obviously it goes into the program itself. And I am very much interested because you did it in 1985. First, I am very grateful for you, Danica to bring out into business in 85, what led you to think that way? What led you to connect art and business in 1985? So early,

Danica Purg: I was thinking [00:03:00] always, you know, that I want to do something for the society, something useful, something meaningful.

That was always my credo. My motto. In fact, it started with ethics because I was already in, uh, 1987, 88 I already had then ethics in our MBA program as an obliged subject. And with art, I started like that, that we were in the residence of former president, Tito having the school in a hotel.

Next to the residence. And it was boring because it was not a big park, no buses driving there, nothing. So, since I was always interested in art, I invited all the time, some actors in the evening or some musicians, et cetera, to make something special for our students and, I had a friend Miha Pogačnik a famous violinist.

Not so much for [00:04:00] playing the violin, although that he does well too, but more that he understood that you can learn something from music. And he is still, I believe the unique person in the world. And he is in the same town living where I was for a long, long time until recently. And so, I invited him often too, and in fact, he was supporting what I was doing, you know, to, to see what the.

To make a comparison what the classical music can bring to people, uh, and what the jazz can bring. And I made the parallel between leadership and then I saw more and more, the more I knew about it, the more I realized how, in fact, you can learn how the conductor them, and learn from leaders, how the leaders can learn from the conductor.

And people are wrong. If they think that I was only bringing in conductor to learn from him, I [00:05:00] also invited once for two days or even three. I forgot already some days 13 conductors to the school.

Nir Hindi: Before we get into this. I want to ask you because you started with music, now you are also using film, you are using visual arts, you are using obviously music performance.

So, I am wondering how today the program looks like what students study today in 2021 in your MBA.

Danica Purg:  Yeah.

What I wanted to say is that in fact, I started by accident. Then I was empowered by Miha you know, and then I learned more and more how these goes and how this is a big, in fact, value adding you will know to the studies.

If you can use the metaphors of art, teach people more about leadership. So, if you asked me, you know, I have to say that that, uh, classical way of educating business leaders and [00:06:00] entrepreneurs in functional courses does not respond anymore to the needs of business as part of society. And that it is more holistic approach needed, and empathic attitude is required.

And so, art and science, I, and science are increasingly seen to develop more creative and innovative leaders. And of course, I shall explain more, uh, more about the book, how we do it. But before that, I would like to say establishing and maintaining change leadership requires more decided talent.

That means that you need brains, then you need guts and that you need heart all of that, you know, and then to a new leadership paradigm where we are talking about better world. Inspiration far-sighted to be farsighted leaders up to be vision, mission, strategy, operation delegation, ethics, [00:07:00] responsibility, society at large developing senses.

That is very important. And so, all these things, you know, which are now in front of us, when we teach leadership. It is possible to bring through with, with the art and with philosophy, you know, art and philosophy tradition that we have an important place in our education because it was not the reaching our understanding of language and expressed spoken language.

so, we are in our school. If I example of music, I should tell you why music. I think that music is the easiest to do. You know, I shall give you some examples. What can we do with different arts? Music is very much touching you, you know, you, you, it, because and Edgar Schein, the famous professor of organizational behavior and organizational culture, who is my friend, I can say.

And I am very proud of that. [00:08:00] He said and wrote    art is helping us to see more, to hear more and to feel more. Art is putting us in touch with our creative self. And though, and if I am thinking of hearing more, then you listen to the music and you are hearing the conflict in the music.

And then at the end of the harmony, you are hearing in music, the cop kills, and then you hear the order again, you know, it is kind of music you are listening to and Miha Pogačnik said once that in his lecture. He said you are first-degree of listening we have four degrees of listening. He spoke. First degree is just the noise. You know, when people are talking and disputing, et cetera, noise, and he said only the fourth one is really putting we in the shoes of somebody else, trying to understand this person.

And it [00:09:00] is really listening. And I should never forget how I went one to his lecture, to Brianna driving by car. And then I called my colleague, one of my employees who are just expecting the baby and then, you know, I called her, and we were disputing something about the work, et cetera.

And I can tell you, these disputes became worse and worse. And we finished the role. She was, I believe exhausted, and I was exhausted. And then I went out of the car. I really felt bad. And I came to the lecture after some you know, 50 meters to the hotel where was the lecture. And then Miha started to talk about noise, and you know, how we should listen to each other et cetera.

And then I said to myself, how stupid I was to talk from the car, the delicate stuff. I should meet this lady or know how stupid I was. We were just disputing, et cetera. I can tell you this was. Probably one of the [00:10:00] biggest lectures as a leader you know, because I am also a leader. I am not teacher only I am primarily leader as a Dean and president of Bled School of Management, I made, you know, so I am really believing that, you know, when we ask students to conduct to do all kinds of things we do with music and compare, but it is not only to compare.

This is like a first degree in art and leadership, you know, that you compare the conductors itself. Everybody tries to do that. And copies everybody, but I, I try to go deeper with art.

Nir Hindi:  so, so, so wait, wait, I want to ask you a few things. First, I really like it. What you said that every leader needs the brain need a gut and need a heart and art can bring us those things.

And then you mentioned that seeing more, hearing more, and feeling more, and I really love how you frame it. That you just in one lecture or maybe even in 10 minutes of the lecture, just realize that the way you manage the team was through [00:11:00] noise and not real listening. And what are the other, some of the courses that you teach your students to develop them as more holistically leaders?

Danica Purg: Yes, for instance, you know, if you ask an MBA student, which style of leadership you have that person will not know to respond. So, what we do is with one of the very experienced professors in business and in art, you know, he is an artist by himself, but he was a.

A big expert in Netherlands for corporate governance. He is having half a day, firstly lecture on artistic styles, starting the Romanesque, and then, you know, going through all this, uh, Gothic and, uh, and Baroque and Renaissance, et cetera, and modern art at the end. And so, he is explaining that and through the music.

Through the architecture and through the painting, [00:12:00] firstly he has a lecture. So, managers are learning more about art this way also, which is very important because I think that managers really should be multi-dimensional personalities, this is also what I am fighting for.

I think that managers should be bigger intellectuals than they are. So that means more reflective persons, et cetera. So, he is firstly doing this and then, you know, showing the styles, then he is putting on the screen 20 photos of the most well-known leaders, politicians, like the goal, like Margaret Thatcher, like, Tito like Gorbachev, like, you know, the leaders that people also know Berlusconi, you know, for fun and then asking students.

Look into all that. What we now explained, for instance, Gothic style is something which is very [00:13:00] disruptive style because the style is before what makes work different, very different. And so Gothic is a metaphor for change management. And so, he is saying, who from these guys was a Gothic, having a Gothic some similarities, but they go into the style of leadership and who is manneristic and who is this and who is that?

And then the realistic, impressionistic etc. And then people start to talk about that and trying to guess who is, who. And then, then they go through this exercise, he is saying, and now each of you will get up and talk about his or her own leadership style. And this is in fact, this is the aim that we should do here.

No with this, through these exercises, he brings them to that and then they are talking about standing up and in front of 30, 40 people talking about themselves, you will never get anybody to stand [00:14:00] there in front of everybody. And talk about all this, you know?

Nir Hindi: Yeah. The leadership style. And I really like it, as you say, kind of letting them speak about themselves through a different medium.

And I wonder. Another kind of question that I had, and you started to mention it in your answer. And you said that managers should be more intellectuals. Why managers should be intellectual? They should basically what we say in the business world. They should focus on the bottom line, more profit. Why we need the intellectuals?

Can you tell me about that?

Danica Purg: Yes. It is not difficult at all managers managing, leading very complex and more and more complex situations. And, uh, and in this complex situation, you must be very innovative, very creative, not only to survive, but also to make something new, to innovate and to create new values, et cetera.

So, it is an absolutely, we must help them [00:15:00] with the art that they boost their creativity. they are, uh, more reflective.   I am the manager and I see myself how I am running through the life, how they do not have the, how I do not have time to stop, how even people are catching you in the street or somewhere and say, Oh, can you explain this?

I do not have time. And I do not have time. And I see my colleagues do the same. You know, this is not a life. This is not a contribution to the better world if we do not have time to stop and to listen to somebody who has perhaps some good ideas or who has a problem. So, I think that in this time, so of globalization digitalization and big data.

The managers have big problems. To see an information, unbelievable quantity of information. They are hardly seeing the opportunity for their business.  They cannot select. What is important? What is not, what is the priority? What is [00:16:00] meaningful life meaningful work    we must stop to reflect.

And artists helping in this process.

Nir Hindi:  And

you

say something very, very interesting for me because, you know, I also did an MBA. And one of the things that you pay attention normally in MBA is that most of the students will rank the soft skills at the bottom of the importance. And what happened is that five years after they graduate, they realized that the most important courses were the soft skills.

I wonder kind of going back to something you said. You said about the importance of showing managers in helping them develop and foster their creativity. And I, I wonder what you would say to a manager that come to the class and tell you, Danica it is great, but I am not creative. It is not for me. What do you?

tell them?

Danica Purg: You know, first, I would like to add something. You know, I mentioned creativity and inspiration and all that because [00:17:00] I always say I like people who come to study to my school to Bled, to go inspire at home. Not only to know more and to develop their intuition and to develop their mindset, that they are becoming more open, you know, more open for new things, et cetera.

So, this, I may not forget to say still, but otherwise, you know, I am, it was much more difficult some years ago, you know, like 10 years ago when we started with art and leadership, because there is nobody had that now there are other schools trying and doing their best in this field and we write more.

We talk more if we have in our brochures. Are those still not enough?  Yet.  And so, people become already before they are prepared for that. There will be something like that, but otherwise I must tell you, it was like that in the beginning, that one third of people were completely refusing to learn art, refusing.

[00:18:00] They did not show any sympathy for that. And they said, why, what for The other third was, was kind of doubting about, but still doing it. And the first third was the one who were really hoping to get something from that. And they were really wishing to have art and leadership, you know, they were curious.

And then of course we started with simple things, simple art, you know, I always make an introduction. One thing I learned I had to go to in INSEAD, uh, next morning and I was letting a ballet dancer with them, you know, and everything was falling apart. After some hours, they were not seeing the meaning of what she does.

so, I said, I shall always, always make a very thorough introduction. And I do. And then one of, part of introduction is also when I talk about art metaphors in business, and I am saying new look how, even using the knowledge, the language of the, [00:19:00] of the art in the business, like we say that sounds swell, a good solution.

You know that sounds swell, this is like music   we say, Oh, this is a positive picture. We say, building an image. We say in the frame of that is a symbol for picture. Singing the same song, like in the team, they must be singing the song. Then we say playing the first violin, you know, somebody in the team plays the first violin.

And then we are saying playing a role from theater, great performance. We talk all the time about performance, so there are many things that we can, you know, we start on the easy way. And then we do also in the theater, we bring the groups here to And they play like, um, alienated a husband or wife who comes from the work home, and then they play real actors.

You know, they play how the husband comes tired from the job having all the time [00:20:00] problems. With people, et cetera, and then coming home, and then the wife who was old stereotype, I have to say that because it is, it is opposite to, I come often home exhausted till the aunt and my husband who was at home because he is now retired.

He is waiting that with him, but I am so tired that I cannot, you know, so it is such a, and she was starting to realize, uh, then you, you realize also how this. Clunes, you know, we are always capable of you. Remember the store is out of the castle, that they were the Royal family. So, our King. Had such a clue and then this one was telling the truth. Probably the only ones who dare to say the truth to the King   they are like from theater we can learn also how to be persuasive. You know, this is in the communication part of the skills. We can learn a lot of communication skills from all this, uh, arts, etc.,

Nir Hindi: I want to go back to

the question.

So how do you [00:21:00] maybe engage the one that tell you I am not creative? It is not for me. I do not see the value in art.  how do you help them? Maybe see it differently

Danica Purg: yeah, I

can tell you, you cannot do too much. We go, just go on with the program. They are obliged. This is a little black part of the program. So, they are listening.

You can see on their faces that they are not. So happy some of them, but you know, then it comes to the clique, so we do not have this anymore, this one third, one third, one third, but we have perhaps still 5% of people at the end who we still did not convince. After all these lectures, after all the beautiful music after inviting painters in the school and then telling people, look, you know, we are showing we have 200 paintings in the school top-quality paintings, and then we send them the students to see the paintings and to tell which painting they like and with which one they identify.

Everybody finds something and then we make some [00:22:00] interviews with students. Then they say some of them, they are, they are all very sincere. And they say, yeah, I was having some doubts in the beginning, but now I do not anymore. Then, you know, like you said later after a year or two, when they come back, they say the nicest, I shall never forget how I was conducting, or they say this, and this was the nicest.

So, we in fact got them already on our side and they are expecting that. And now they would be disappointed if we did not have that.

Nir Hindi: I think that the more important is not the 5% that are not convinced it is the 95% that are convinced.

And I think it is, uh, it is impressive to kind of see it. So maybe I will ask you kind of general question about the skills because I also want to ask you, you do not only bring art to the program, as you just mentioned, you bring it into the physical space. So, what are. Maybe in a list, what are the, some of the skills that business leaders can learn from art based on your [00:23:00] experience?

You already mentioned few of

them.

Danica Purg: Yeah. I think that it depends very much on whether something, is skill or something is attitude, you know, they also change the attitudes and, uh, perhaps it is one of the skills we could still say that the reflection is a part of the skill. Well, is a skill and that is quite a powerful skill, reflection then I think vision.

Vision in yourself. It is also a kind of skill, intuitive skill, et cetera. So, intuition also, they are learning much more I do not know what, what would you call creativity? But you know, it is not some knowledge, but it is not a typical skill, neither. So, they open mindset that is more attitude, transformative mindset, or this, uh, this catalytic mindset.

Oh, you know, where one person sets the direction, and it goes. And it is like a [00:24:00] leader artistic leader brings them through, you know, so we are also using film and we have, this is perhaps also the most impactful part of the studies where we invite us Sarajevo film director Andreas Prochaska, which very, very reflective, and very great film director and theater director, he brings some fantastic people and he brings them with him, some movies.

And then he is showing this movie and discussing with people, the ethical issues. So, you are not teaching people. What is ethical, what is not, but you are letting them reflect through the field through impactful images. What is in that situation? What was ethical? And what was not so you know, you can learn so much, but I say it is also attitude?

you know, you become a better human being. Once two guys it is already [00:25:00] 10, 15 years ago too. They two Macedonian guys made an interview for their newspaper. And when they returned from our MBA executive MBA.

So, they were about 30-35. And then they were talking and talking with the journalist. And then at the end, one of them said, when I came home from the studies, of course in my company, they saw how much I learned how much I know how I can use the knowledge immediately, but my family said that I became a better human being.

  Nir Hindi: For your work, as the Dean in 2010, the prestigious US-based Academy of international business named you Dean of the year. So, you are doing things right with these braveries of putting art in business.  So, I want to ask you another question, because there is also case study that consists of four different case studies about you.

And while I was [00:26:00] preparing for our conversation, I read the cases and I want to quote one of the sentences said and ask you about it. Okay. And you said that I am quoting, I am particularly upset by people who work just for money. I need money too, but basically, I work for ideas. What does it mean to work for ideas?

Danica Purg: You know,

as I said, again, the work must be meaningful. I could never, ever work in a company where I would just do something and then earn the money, et cetera. Never. That is why I have a job. Which is not so terribly well paid, you know, but I have a lot of pleasure because it has a meaning because I see how I can even make impact, you know, that there were almost hundred thousand people in our school already starting short programs, long programs, everything included and from more than a hundred countries.

So, I do not, I certainly [00:27:00] do not like an MBA participant. Who comes to study because he read, or she read somewhere in the newspapers that you will be get better salary when you have an MBA in your pocket? This is terrible for me. And you know, what is even more terrible that the schools are making publicity for that.

And when you finish our school, you will get more money. You know, they do not say you will change the world for a better place, or you will help so many people to get the job, or you will, you know, make society concerning the climate better place, et cetera, et cetera. Now, this is hurting. And I am, uh, certainly somebody who is well known for this fight.

You know, I also have, I am also running I am president of an association of 200 business schools for 55 countries called CEEMAN. I established that [00:28:00] 28 years ago and there, you know, we are talking about. Relevance of management education, how management education should have a role to change the society. So, I think that every manager.

Is it responsible for more than his pocket for more than his company for more, you know, than his family, et cetera, and the company organization, but responsible for society at large?

Nir Hindi: moving,

maybe from shareholders. To the stakeholders

value.

Danica Purg: Yeah, of course we talk, and you know, other associations so talking about, but I would like that they give to schools that accreditation based on that, and not only on the basis, how many articles they published in some scientific journals, which all my respect, I also publish in scientific journals, but this is not the most important.

The most important is how you are. Professionally, [00:29:00] uh, working for a better world.

Nir Hindi: So at least one recommendation that we can take from this conversation is work for ideas. Not only for money.

Danica Purg: That’s for

sure. So

you will be happy too.

Nir Hindi: I feel too, they live with you on that. I always say that I love myself more than I like my bank manager and I always try to do what I love, and I believe in there was another beautiful moment that I read in the case.

And in the case, it was describing a moment that you were. Preparing to host big conference about the school and in the invitation, your team prepared and wrote the word ROI return on investment together with the words, vision, and creativity. When you demanded immediately to remove it, why did you ask to remove the word ROI from the invitation and keep the vision and creativity?

Danica Purg: You know, if you make conferences, you [00:30:00] usually make a big event and you make an event which is above the usual, everyday life above the factory place, above the company place, et cetera. So, you are talking about bigger issues and then that bigger issues to ask for return on investment.

It is a little bit funny; you know. So, uh, then you do not convey the message I wanted to convey. I do not have anything against return on investment, but it was not a proper moment and the proper place. Because, you know, we have international conferences about women leaders, about Europe, of the future about what can we learn from each professional?

We can learn more in management because you will be very surprised, but you can learn much from biology, for instance. Yeah. We have famous professor Dominique Turk, uh, he is, I think about that, you know, so I am inviting such a people for the [00:31:00] conferences where we are really reflecting on the future, et cetera. And then ROI does not have a place.

there.

Nir Hindi: I want to also, we did not speak about it at all, but you made sure that art will be present. Not only in the program, you touched it upon when you mentioned the painting, but you also made sure that the whole architecture, that the whole environment will be.

Inspiring for creative thinking. Can you tell us about what you did with the building, with the art collection you did and why you think it is important?  

Danica Purg: I have you started the school in the hotel next to the residence of late president Tito, which was a kind of a. Hotel, not public hotel, but, you know, private in the sense that this function is we are coming there, et cetera.

And I, and there were a lot of very good painting in and park around so we could be in peace, et cetera, but it was otherwise was for the rest. It was annoying. [00:32:00] And then I was leaving that place.  So, I was looking for a long time, how to go out of this bureaucratic place, you know, to make my school where I am responsible, whether the windows are clean, whether people are behaving nicely, whether they have enough flowers, et cetera, et cetera.

So, I found somebody suggested to me go to Bled, which is considered as one of the 10, most beautiful places in the world. I do not know whether you realize that, but CNN said the Bled is one of the 10 nicest lakes in the world. And, you know, recently it was published somewhere again, et cetera. So, blade is absolutely, uh, an icon, you know, and beautiful place, very inspirational place.

I mean, the Lake. Then around the Lake, the mountains, very high mountains, the castle up, and then on the, in the middle of the Lake an Island and do you know that this is the only Island that Slovenia has. And on this island is a small church [00:33:00] and 99 steps up where people go to marry and all these churches not active, but they go to marriage was to walk, you know, that steps.

Or if the husband is a strong guy, he is carrying his bride up. You know, and then they are stairs pooling the bale and having the vicious. That is such a nice ceremony when you know, and you go there by boat in a beautiful piece of the Lake, et cetera, very romantic, I organize these trips to go to this church to have a concert, you know, after this decomposition of music, what Miha Pogačnik is doing, we are going then there now with the students he plays the violin in the church and sometimes also on the boat.

So, places were inspiration. Then I said to myself, this school must be one of the nicest in the world. You know, I am very ambitious person. So, I found the best architect in Slovenia and he made the school. But of course, before I sent him to [00:34:00] IMD Lausanne, because they are also on the lake, there although not so close as we but still also a nice school.

And I sent him to some other places because he had to understand that the management school is a business meeting place, not a school. If people come there must be big corridors, big terraces places where people come together, meet and talk, you know? So, he understood that. And he really made, you know, from everywhere where you are stand, you have beautiful views.

A lot of windows shut off everywhere because it is so beautiful outside. So, it is good to look through the windows. And then, and then I said, I want to have beautiful paintings because I go to different schools and offices, etc. And I am so disappointed. I do not see any painting anywhere.

Or hardly anything or just some poster somewhere, but if they are beautiful posters fine too. So, I decided to have like Slovenian [00:35:00] window of the world, I wanted to have Slovenian paintings, and then I went to companies. Who are contributing to the building and I said, why don’t you give us one beautiful painting out of your collection so that the then we shall, write down kindly donated by you and do you know that I collected 200 paintings? I bought perhaps five, but all the rest I collected from the companies. And, uh, and this is so wonderful now there, and, uh, it is inspirational you know because you know, what is art doing?

Art is shocking, provoking, and inspiring. Most of our business firing, but I also have some paintings that are very much provoking. And so, people are standing there looking and seeking what it is, you know, its, it is black and red. And then they say, is that the ideological or whatever?

And somebody said that I have the, we have in our school the second best. Uh, how do you say corporate [00:36:00] collection of art in Slovenia? One bank is the better one than we are.

Nir Hindi: amazing congratulation for what these achievements. I love it. I love it. Listen, we are getting into the end of our podcast and I have two more questions you are a pioneer in the world of art and management.

And you started very early on and I wonder. What has changed since you started and how we can get to see more of these initiatives, more deans, more business managers, like you that understand how powerful art can be in building the leaders of the future.

Danica Purg: Yeah. You know perhaps I am not too near in depth because I saw some famous professors, uh, in the world.

Uh, then I saw this, um, you know, now I forgot the name, but I saw the Boston Philharmonic orchestra conductor who was, you know, [00:37:00] going around with his orchestra or with his musicians and explaining on that and writing even a book about that, you know, I read his book. So, so perhaps I am not really a pioneer, but I am somebody for sure who is developing this as a serious, uh, subject at the university at the faculty for post-graduate studies and executive education to in our school.

So that I do. And I hope to continue with that. You know, even when I shall retire one day, I shall still, continue to deal with that because this is something really, very much rewarding. What I see from the beginning until now is that. People are, as I mentioned already, people are much more understanding that they are much more seeing what art can bring in the curriculum, you know, and other institutions are seeing more and [00:38:00] they would like to do that, but they do not know some things are addressed and they want to do, but they do not know how to do it.

 They did not invest. You know, we invested in people in, brought them there., I am always listening to almost every time they are telling something how I must know. We have conversations about that.  So, investment is necessary and of course the practice, but you know, what it was important.

In my case, in my case, it was important that I was a Dean who believed in that. So, I did not need to ask 10 commissions, whether we can do that. You know, I did it, because I liked it. And then other teachers were following me. And I employed only people, the faculty members who are really interested in that too, even if they teach something else, even our professor of finance.

You know, coming from IMD Lausanne, great professor, one of the best in the world, probably in finance. [00:39:00] He also started to turn on the music during the, the lectures or not lectures, but the breaks, et cetera. Now it is, it is very special to see how this has a big impact. And one last thing I would like to say is that.

We are now going to make a big research. Now I have two young researchers whom I made interested in and they at least will make a research with our alumni.  What did I get from them? Or how did they remember them or what that brought to them, you know, to their inner life.

And how do they become better managers because of that, if they see the connection and how they see et cetera, we need to make them?

Nir Hindi: I

think you have touched a very important point, which I call the commitment for me on a personal level. I do not believe that there are creative and innovative companies that are innovative and creative people that build those companies and behind every successful creative company or in that case, a [00:40:00] business school, there is a first name and a last name, and I am very happy that we are having you, uh, Professor Danica Purg.

 It is so exciting. So first, Count on me to support in any way that I can. So, when you have the research, let me know, we will have another podcast discussing only the results of the research, but I want to finish with one last question, few years back the former president of Slovenia encourage you to think about running for presidency.

But you decided against it because you wanted to do with the school much more. So, what is your vision?

Danica Purg: That is still the case. You will know it, it is very difficult for me to imagine, to go somewhere else, because I am all the time thinking like every entrepreneur, because I am primarily entrepreneur intellectual entrepreneur, every entrepreneur is thinking.

I did not finish the project yet. You know, I want to make it still more, you know, more rounded and perfect, et cetera. That is the [00:41:00] one thing I know on the other side, I must tell you this seem to me many times attractive, because again, I see the change. I could do many things as a leader, uh, to change the country, to do the things well I have plenty of ideas, how I could make life of some people better.

but, um, Still, I, I could not decide. I shall certainly, or most probably not decide not anymore in this age. You know, I, I think I should stay with the school if I can, and I should develop the meaningful studies and work.

Nir Hindi: professor

Danica Purg. It was such a great pleasure. I wish that your energy will stay contagious as it is.

I am positive listeners already feel this energy. I can only wish that you will create more and more leaders that will change the world. I am very [00:42:00] grateful for the work that you have been doing. And for the time that you took to share with us, all your thoughts and knowledge.

Danica Purg: Thank

you are very much. It was a great pleasure.

And you had great questions. Thank you. Thank

you.

Nir Hindi: Thank you, Danica.

Danica Purg: Thank